Allotment Gardening Advice Help Chat
Chatting => Design and Construction => Topic started by: Rixy on June 05, 2008, 01:27
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Walking home other day I noticed someone a couple of streets away from where I live was renewing their fence, ever the opportunist I asked as to whether I could have the old fence and was told yes :).
The fence itself comprised a 4"x4" bottom and a 4"x4" inch top rail screwed to which were 6' lengths of 6" wide 1/2" thick planks. After unscrewing all the planks (50 or 52, i forget which) and cutting out the rotten buts of the botton and top rails and upright supports I now have a fair amount of wood with which to make some raised beds.
Now the question is, do I go for A - 6' L x 3' W x 1.5' H beds or do i go for B - 6' L x 2' W x 1.5' H beds and find something else to do with any surplus planks?.
Cheers for your input
Roy.
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Titchmarsh recommends 4' wide by 12' long raised beds as being ideal size for reaching across to the middle and long enough to walk round. If they're too long you'd be tempted to walk across the bed
At the end of the day though it's what timber you've got but the above is a starting point. I hadn't a clue so made my first ones that size but I have some timber now which I think means my next one will be 4' wide by probably 8' long.
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The planks are 6 foot long by 6 inch wide and 1/2 inch thick, think i will go for 6 6'x2'x1.5' beds. Need an allotment to put them on first though :(, so the wood will be staying in my outhouse until then.
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The planks are 6 foot long by 6 inch wide and 1/2 inch thick, think i will go for 6 6'x2'x1.5' beds. Need an allotment to put them on first though :(, so the wood will be staying in my outhouse until then.
I'd make them 12' long and have a joint half way along, either a bracket or using a stake to join
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Why do people have raised beds.
P.S I am new to allotmentieering.
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Why do people have raised beds.
P.S I am new to allotmentieering.
better drainage
easier to work on
neater alotment
no initial digging of the ground
you can put different types of soil in each one
loads of plus points really
i just wish i had the mulla to make my own
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Why do people have raised beds.
P.S I am new to allotmentieering.
My personal reason is to gain some height thereby lessening the distance i have to bend over, hopefully taking some of the strain off of my back.
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Why do people have raised beds.
P.S I am new to allotmentieering.
better drainage
easier to work on
neater alotment
no initial digging of the ground
you can put different types of soil in each one
loads of plus points really
i just wish i had the mulla to make my own
More frequent watering due to faster drainage
Waste of a lot of growing space
More path maintenance
Lot of digging to get soil into beds
Time/money spent sourcing wood
Loads of minus points really.
(Playing Devil's Advocate here to get the balance :twisted: )
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they don't have to be edged at all. Just raised and the top gets flattened with the back of the spade
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Why do people have raised beds.
P.S I am new to allotmentieering.
better drainage
easier to work on
neater alotment
no initial digging of the ground
you can put different types of soil in each one
loads of plus points really
i just wish i had the mulla to make my own
More frequent watering due to faster drainage
Waste of a lot of growing space
More path maintenance
Lot of digging to get soil into beds
Time/money spent sourcing wood
Loads of minus points really.
(Playing Devil's Advocate here to get the balance :twisted: )
:lol: as the owner of a dodgy back though nothing can outweigh the ability to stand up again after weeding/planting etc..
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I'm on the point of buying a raised bed system made from recycled uPVC because I read that timber treatments used to preserve wood can leach out into the soil and into crops.
Has anyone any experience of uPVC systems that 'link' together?
(By the way, I'm new to these boards and looking forward to picking lots of brains - as well as fruit and veg!)
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I've been wanting to make raised beds for ages. We looked at recycled wood but was so expensive! then looked at concrete circle thingies but were so heavy and expensive to deliver!
There HAS to be an easier way?
All advise would be most welcome and visual instructions would be even better :D
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I'm on the point of buying a raised bed system made from recycled uPVC because I read that timber treatments used to preserve wood can leach out into the soil and into crops.
Has anyone any experience of uPVC systems that 'link' together?
(By the way, I'm new to these boards and looking forward to picking lots of brains - as well as fruit and veg!)
Hi Anne, yes i have just built my firsst link-a-board system, they come in I metre packs. Despite being disabled it only took me about 30 mins to assemble the 2 metre system I bought, i thought it would be best to start small.
Prices vary, the main suppliers seem to charge about £24 for each 1 metre system, I found an on- line site that do them for just over £14. I am not sure if I can post the URL on here, this is my first day on here
The turn round time was about 5 days and came in good order. I hope this helps
regards Len
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Hello and welcome to all you newbies :)
Not sure whether you have this in New Zealand or not, but I've just managed to scrounge a whole load of timber & used floorboards from our local Freecycle site.
Why not give that a go?
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I got an (expensive) wood one when I first started which has been great and the expense is the only thing that put me off getting another. I then made myself a second one out of bricks I got out of a skip and from a friend. Easy to do (might be a bit more level the next time though :oops: ), looks good (if I could see it under the trailing pumpkins that have exploded from it) and can always add another layer to raise it further if needed.
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Hi kate
can I ask what you filled it it with, I am looking at topsoil and farmyard manure for mine , when I can get almost son-in-law to help me get to the garden centre. :D
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According to Dr Hessayon on raised beds "the yield per plant is less than you would expect by the traditional system, but surprisingly, the yield per square foot is often higher"
He suggests planting dwarf and early maturing varieties in raised beds, planting closer together and leaving an equal distance between plants.
For soil, he recommends 2 parts topsoil to one part organic matter.
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I filled them with compost from my bins, soil from digging a pond and spent grow bags etc. When they first started the level was really quite low but its gradually increasing over the last couple of years.
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I filled them with compost from my bins, soil from digging a pond and spent grow bags etc. When they first started the level was really quite low but its gradually increasing over the last couple of years.
That's roughly how I did mine except for the pond bit.
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Cheaper than buying it all although takes longer :lol: .
Have to confess didn't do all the digging myself. When my friends asked what I wanted for my birthday I said "Absolutly nothing. And I want the nothing to be 'so' big, over there and filled with water :lol:
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Cheaper than buying it all although takes longer :lol: .
Have to confess didn't do all the digging myself. When my friends asked what I wanted for my birthday I said "Absolutly nothing. And I want the nothing to be 'so' big, over there and filled with water :lol:
Nice one. :lol:
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According to Dr Hessayon on raised beds "the yield per plant is less than you would expect by the traditional system, but surprisingly, the yield per square foot is often higher"
He suggests planting dwarf and early maturing varieties in raised beds, planting closer together and leaving an equal distance between plants.
For soil, he recommends 2 parts topsoil to one part organic matter.
Thanks for that Ice, I was abit worried about putting in too much farmyard manure and making it too rich? is that possible?
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Thats m,y next trick is looking for wood for the raised beds but I do have a load of block paving stones that were left at the house when we moved in, not sure how secure they would be wish I had more bricks!!
With freecycle had no luck with that so far. Just realy want some old scafolding planks realy!
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I bought the first one and used bricks scavenged from a friend for the second.
On the look out for more bricks for a third now. Had seen skips of them everywhere untill I decided it was time for another raised bed and now nothing!
Isn't it always the way :roll:
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yep that it is, do you cement them in or leave free standing ~?
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Left them free standing. They've done a grand job this year and I think cementing might be a little beyond me!
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Hi all.
i have raised beds by the ton and they didnt cost me a penny, i found that my friend who is involved in the running of a factory has lubricating oil delivered in these big 4 foot cube plastic contaners inside a wire mesh cage .
They are supported on a fixed pallet type base . Once he has emptied the oil out he has to "PAY" to get rid of the container . So i got two from him sawed them in 1/2 accross the middle horizontaly and low and behold you have two 4 ft sq plant pots, supported by a wire cage around the outside . I then drilled drainage holes in them with a battery drill filled them with a mix of 50/50 council compost and old grow bags. they are about 18 inches high by the time you have cleaned the side up and are just perfect . I grow early corrots in one and late carrots in another . as they are 18 inches off the ground i dont get carrot root fly at all .Oh mix a bit of sand in the mix if you intend to grow carrots
You can put them end to end to make 4,8,12 ft lengths as required .
cheers all
Roy
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Just to add a little balance to the debate, seemingly all the new entrants to my allotment start with both deep begs and raised beds.
At a price of surrounding these 6=9 inch beds with paths to walk up and down around the beds and the cost of construction, in my view, they gain virtually no advantage over the gardener who uses all his land at spacings to give maximum yield.
Protection is important to increase soil temperatures, but 6-9 inches is virtually no depth at all = Rosemoor use 3-4 foot beds - and the tendency to plant too closely is clearly par for the course, thus reducing yields from the optimum spacing.
Gardening is a science and I have yet to hear a scientific explanation to justify deep beds or "low" raised beds. You don't have to dig soil every year nor walk on it if you mulch it appropriately so that few weeds result.
I am extremely sceptical of the argument that a light tread next to plants to remove the few weeds that survive good mulching has enormous consequence in reducing yields over the growing season. Especially if you use a board to do so. Slugs and snails are noit thwarted by 6-9 inches. I suspect the claimed advantages of deep or raised beds relates to the heavy manuring or composting they receive which is also very beneficial to normal soil.
Is there a scientist in the house or is it simply "flavour of the month" for "tidy" people?
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Just to add a little balance to the debate, seemingly all the new entrants to my allotment start with both deep begs and raised beds.
At a price of surrounding these 6=9 inch beds with paths to walk up and down around the beds and the cost of construction, in my view, they gain virtually no advantage over the gardener who uses all his land at spacings to give maximum yield.
Protection is important to increase soil temperatures, but 6-9 inches is virtually no depth at all = Rosemoor use 3-4 foot beds - and the tendency to plant too closely is clearly par for the course, thus reducing yields from the optimum spacing.
Gardening is a science and I have yet to hear a scientific explanation to justify deep beds or "low" raised beds. You don't have to dig soil every year nor walk on it if you mulch it appropriately so that few weeds result.
I am extremely sceptical of the argument that a light tread next to plants to remove the few weeds that survive good mulching has enormous consequence in reducing yields over the growing season. Especially if you use a board to do so. Slugs and snails are noit thwarted by 6-9 inches. I suspect the claimed advantages of deep or raised beds relates to the heavy manuring or composting they receive which is also very beneficial to normal soil.
Is there a scientist in the house or is it simply "flavour of the month" for "tidy" people?
You're post seemed a little aggressive Chris. Surely there is nothing wrong in having different opinions and preferences. Personally, I like my raised beds because I have a dodgy back and have had huge success with them. I would never berate someone for disagreeing or wanting to try something a bit different.
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I'm seriously looking into putting a few raised beds on my plot as the plot next to mine is grassed over and used for parking. It slopes gently towards my plot and so I end up with far more water than I need!!!
My plot is clay and took forever to drain this spring and delayed a lot of digging!! :evil:
I would like to raise the levels and see if it makes life easier for me - I already have grass pathways and so would not be losing too much planting area. The problem I have is all this talk of chemicals leaching out into the soil... I have no idea what wood to avoid! Are scaffold planks treated? Are some treatments worse than others? Should I just spend a fortune on the plastic stuff? :? :shock:
I'm not at all bothered about the science of growing... I just want an easy life. :wink: :D
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did hear one suggestion of using logs from cut down trees etc - anyone tried/had any success/problems with this idea?
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I cannot see why it would not work, as its only to keep the soil in. Only trouble may be the size...
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I have no problem with people trying alternative approaches and making experiments. This represents good science. For example, Geoff Hamilton was initially extremely sceptical about Organic Gardening but found by experiment that his organic plot outperformed his non-organic plot, particular after some years. If people similarly who wanted to evaluate the benefits of raised beds/deep beds did a similar comparison, I would also have no problem.
What appears to be happening is that advice to use deep beds/raised beds without any scientific reason or exerimental evidence is being swallowed by new entrants to allotments involving them in a high cost, low yield system rather than using the traditional low cost, high yield system of using all the land given one and planting at the optimum yield as determined by experiment by the National Vegetable Research Station which is very similar to traditional spacings.
If you have a particular problem, such as a bad back, you may prefer to use the system. Have all the deep/raised bedders bad backs? I hope not. Has anybody any experimental evidence of the superiority of deep/raised 6-9 inch beds over traditional methods? Surely this forum is the place to present such evidence.
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I found root veg better in raised beds, carrots and the like less likely to fork etc.
I assume that is due that on the whole the soil in my own raised beds are not as compact ?
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If you have a particular problem, such as a bad back, you may prefer to use the system. Have all the deep/raised bedders bad backs?
Another advantage of raised beds is to improve siol drainage in our recent couple of years of very wet weather.
I have good sandy loam on my allotment and it drains well even after heavy rain. My son who lives in Brum has very heavy soil which becomes waterlogged after a heavy mist :wink: He's found raised beds a great boon :D
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Is there a scientist in the house or is it simply "flavour of the month" for "tidy" people?
Oh no no no Chris. There may be a lot of science to gardening but there is also a great deal of "art" to it.
One old gardener on our site knows nothing of science. His rows are as straight as solders his soil is magnificent from 36 years of working by him, his crops are to die for. The adjacent plot to him was neglected for many years but is now being gardened by a young couple who have put in raised beds. Their children can play on the paths collecting bugs and picking daisies without damaging any veg plants. Their beds are quite amazingly prolific and look beautiful.
It's horses for courses and who is to say what's right and what's wrong. It's the enjoyment of growing your own food in a way that gives you pleasure which is the most important thing surely :D
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who is to say what's right and what's wrong. It's the enjoyment of growing your own food in a way that gives you pleasure which is the most important thing surely :D
Well said Aunty! :D
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My winter project is to build five beds using gravelboard.
1.9x15x240cm
Five boards per pack at £18.35 each x 3 =£55 squid = £11 squid per 2.4x120cm bed.
Can anyone see a problem?
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Yeah 55 squid!
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Yeah 55 squid!
:lol: :lol:
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My winter project is to build five beds using gravelboard.
1.9x15x240cm
Five boards per pack at £18.35 each x 3 =£55 squid = £11 squid per 2.4x120cm bed.
Can anyone see a problem?
Yeah., apart from the £55 squid bit. What are these boards made from?
If softwood, then 15mm is too thin IMHO, :roll: They will bend with the weight of the soil. you need at least 25mm thickness.
plus, 240mm (i.e. near 10" in width), I would expect them to split/shake all over the place in the sun.( If we get some next year :roll: )
If you want real deep beds, then either double up with Decking boards, or try and scrounge some old scaffold boards (from a local builder/scaffold hire place??)
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These are standard treated gravel boards and are 1.9cm (19mm) thick, 15cm (150mm) deep and 2.4 m long. Decking boards are too expensive.
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These are standard treated gravel boards and are 1.9cm (19mm) thick, 15cm (150mm) deep and 2.4 m long. Decking boards are too expensive.
Need to put my glasses on :oops:
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These are standard treated gravel boards and are 1.9cm (19mm) thick, 15cm (150mm) deep and 2.4 m long. Decking boards are too expensive.
Need to put my glasses on :oops:
:lol: :lol: :lol:
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These are standard treated gravel boards and are 1.9cm (19mm) thick, 15cm (150mm) deep and 2.4 m long. Decking boards are too expensive.
Need to put my glasses on :oops:
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Never did like metrification.... In my job, we're all still using feet 'n inches, much bl@@dy simpler IMHO"!
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My winter project is to build five beds using gravelboard.
1.9x15x240cm
Five boards per pack at £18.35 each x 3 =£55 squid = £11 squid per 2.4x120cm bed.
Can anyone see a problem?
I did this recently and so far as long as you add in supports then there fine. Mine was 2 high by 12ft long / 4ft across, will add a picture on tomorrow night / weekend as going to blue planet with family tomorrow.
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My whole lotty is converted to raised beds cost to build £0. Go to your local trade gutter/facia supplier and ask for the old returned upvc facia boards no rot and upto 3m long. The main benefit for me is the ability to work on them whatever the weather as time is always short
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These are standard treated gravel boards and are 1.9cm (19mm) thick, 15cm (150mm) deep and 2.4 m long. Decking boards are too expensive.
Need to put my glasses on :oops:
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Never did like metrification.... In my job, we're all still using feet 'n inches, much bl@@dy simpler IMHO"!
yes working in "10"s is very very very hard... :roll:
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Mine are the cheapest beds of all - I simply heap up the soil from the paths onto the beds themselves. Each year I can change the size, shape and whatever with no cost and little effort since I rotovate the works every fall anyway.
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Mine are free too as they are made from bricks salvaged from skips etc.
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Have read this thread with interest as am planning to construct some raised beds (sort of) to grow veggies.
Not sure if they are raised beds but as am making a flat veg patch on a slope one end will be raised so hopefully this is the best place to ask my questions???
The area is around 5m square, sloping upwards from ground level at the back of the house at about 30 degrees.
Think I will need to cut into the ground at the far end from the house and support the ground there to stop it collapsing when I lower the surface level plus at the other end when I raise the surface, as well as at the sides.
Started off looking at railway sleepers but at £25 a pop the pallet etc suggestions here look more practical.
Reckon I'd be raising the ground by about 2 feet at the house end. Is there any rule of thumb regards thickness of timber vs height of soil retained?
Do I need to do this at all or can I just plant on the slope and save myself the hassle? Back of the house is south facing so would still get plenty sun but not sure if it would erode??
Any advice would be greatfully received. Thanks in advance. :wink:
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I would think for a two foot high retaining wall that you'll need something more substantial than timbers from pallets. Even sleepers would probably need a decent footing to be fastened to.
See if you can get some concrete blocks or similar off freecycle.
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Im using scaffolding boards , seem ideal size to me. Luckly i can get these for free as i think they would be dear to buy.
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If you're looking to raise the soil as much as that think you'll need something as strong as railway sleepers. :(
Have you thought of making 2 terraces then each 'wall' would be smaller and thinner timber could be used.
Just a thought........... different ideas will follow
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A series of terraces would seem the right approach.
If you decide to plant on the slope, which is good if it is south facing, then plant rows across the slope to avoid erosion.