[fridgesoup]

Hello everyone!  Newly registered, but I've been lurking on the site for a while and find the information really useful as a novice allotmenteer, so thank you.

I am having three blue barrels delivered to my allotment tomorrow and am wondering how best to cut the tops off so I can use them for water collection.  They are the type with sealed-on lids with two screw caps in the top iirc.  Should  I try and cut into the top leaving a rim or is it best to cut through the sides and discard the top?  I'm going to be limited to hand tools at the allotment, so any advice on making this a bit easier would be much appreciated - what would be the best kind of saw, for example? I'd also like to link them together to collect water from the shed roof (once I get round to putting some guttering up!) but am having a failure of imagination about that too... 

[ConfusedGardener]

I would put them on breeze blocks or bricks, and put taps near the bottom of them. They would need to be elevated enough so that you can get your watering can (or a bucket) under the taps. You can link them with a water butt linking kit (I found mine for £4.50). You'll need to drill holes in them with a hole saw (about £7-12 on ebay), both for the taps, the linking kit, and the down pipe from the guttering, so you'll probably need to get your hands on a battery powered drill if you don't have one and there is no power available.

[grendel]

my dad cuts a square in the lid, then screws two battens to the bit from the middle that are longer than the holes so he can sit the square back in place as a lid, I would think drilling a hole at the corners and using a keyhole saw the best bet.
as for joining, I use the standard joining kits, just drill a hole in each barrel near the top, fit the fittings and as soon as the first barrels full the second starts filling.
Grendel

[hunros40]

I link mine together with a section of hose and set up a syphon link so they all have the same amount of water in them. Cheap and simple

[fridgesoup]

Thank you all for taking the time to reply. 

grendel, that's a good idea with the battens  .  Looked up keyhole saw on Am.zon and found one for under a fiver delivered - looks like it would do the job.

I probably should have said that I'd like to be able to plunge my watering can into the barrel to fill quickly, (maybe just one of them, maybe all three) so will need to remove the whole top/lid.

hunros - what is the benefit of having the same amount in all of them?  How do you set up a syphon link?

[RJR_38]

Can I ask where you got yours from? I am desperate to get a couple. Have asked on freecycle with no luck and all the ones I have seen on eBay are too far away

[Beetroot queen]

Can I ask where you got yours from? I am desperate to get a couple. Have asked on freecycle with no luck and all the ones I have seen on eBay are too far away

Ask on your local trading estate we get them free just need washing out

[fridgesoup]

I just kept looking on ebay until some nearby came up.  Actually missed the bidding but the people selling have them regularly so I waited a couple of weeks.  I bought 3 for £10 and they are able to deliver (which was invaluable to me). The people selling them supply cleaning products to various local firms and they've rinsed out the empty ones.  I don't know if that's an avenue you could pursue local to you.  There's also a pallet recycling company not far away who sell used barrels (including fab white ones with wide clip on lids) but they wanted £10 for those (not delivered) and I wanted free - or very cheap!!

One of our local recycling centres allegedly sells them for between £3 and £5 each, but I've never been lucky when I've looked.

[Beetroot queen]

I just kept looking on ebay until some nearby came up.  Actually missed the bidding but the people selling have them regularly so I waited a couple of weeks.  I bought 3 for £10 and they are able to deliver (which was invaluable to me). The people selling them supply cleaning products to various local firms and they've rinsed out the empty ones.  I don't know if that's an avenue you could pursue local to you.  There's also a pallet recycling company not far away who sell used barrels (including fab white ones with wide clip on lids) but they wanted £10 for those (not delivered) and I wanted free - or very cheap!!

One of our local recycling centres allegedly sells them for between £3 and £5 each, but I've never been lucky when I've looked.

We get wide half height ones with lids and locks, brilliant for making comfrey tea or storing my scaffold net in 

[RJR_38]

Thanks, I will keep looking then. No trading estates near us annoyingly!

[Trillium]

hunros - what is the benefit of having the same amount in all of them?  How do you set up a syphon link?

I use this method as well. We add our barrel connector hose close to the bottom rather than the top as an overflow and it makes getting water out of the 2nd barrel easier as you need only 1 tap/drainage set to do so. If you do the overflow/equalizer at the top, you must add a 2nd set of taps/drainage at the bottom of the 2nd barrel to get the water out.

But both tanks do need a high overflow drain so pressure doesn't burst the barrels, AND, you do need a small top air release or you'll find your barrels bulging from air and water. A small drill hole will do the trick.

One fellow said he used radiator hosing successfully. It has some flex if the barrels move in high winds. My barrels are in a sheltered area and we used 1/2" pvc connectors and pipes, and I find this too small. I want to convert to 3/4" or 1" for better flow.

[fridgesoup]

Thanks Trillium.  It took me a few reads to digest and get a mental picture of what you were saying, but I think I have it now! 

I've also had a think about what hunros said about syphons and having the same amount of water in each and the mists are clearing in my head about that too .  I found a helpful discussion about syphons somewhere else - unfortunately I can't make the link work, but I searched for 'linking water butts' and it came up on The Green Living Forum

I like the simplicity of using cheap hose!  I could then set up my 'system' (ha, ha) without having to do so much barrel cutting (which is where I started this).  This is my thinking...

Set whole lot raised up to take a watering can from a tap in the last barrel.  All of them at the same level?

Barrel No.1:  I take off the two screw caps in the top.  Down pipe fills into one hole and my syphon hose will come out of the other.  I'll try and fashion some kind of mesh to keep debris out of the hole or better still, drill a hole through one cap to take the hose snugly.  Will weight the hose to keep it's ends at the botom.

Barrel 2:  Drill hole through the caps.  Syphon hose into one from barrel No 1 and another coming out of the other ready for barrel 3.  I can easily link in more barrels here.  I could drill small holes through the caps for air pressure release, perhaps

Barrel 3:  Cut out the top (try and make a replaceable lid with battens as per an earlier suggestion?).  Fit a tap low down.  Set up syphon hose through the lid as before.

Would I need overflow pipes on all of the barrels or would it be sufficient on barrel 3 only?  (I could even leave the top open or covered in mesh).

I'm imagining being able to fill a watering can by plunging into barrel 3 from the top when there's lots of water in and using the tap when not so much.

If you can see any obvious flaws, I'd be grateful for the feedback.


ETA - already found a flaw!!  I'll need a hole in the tops big enough to get my arm down to the bottom of the barrel to create the syphon (thumb over the end of the pipe).  Durrr!  (and Grrrr!)

PS this is the link which doesn't link (!), but if you copy and paste it, it will get you there..
http://thegreenlivingforum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=7215

[Trillium]

This system is very similar to what we did; LINK
Rather than using a siphon hose, we let it all gravity feed.

If your barrels are open topped, then no need for overflows unless you want to divert overflow from say a house foundation or whatever to open grass, etc. If you're leaving 2 barrels closed, the third open, then an overflow is a good idea, and make it at least 2" pipe, since pressure from the first two could cause flooding problems. From the roof of our small house, 1/4" of rain will fill two 55 gal  barrels four times over so do some calculations on amounts you'll likely collect, what the barrels can handle, where excess can go, etc. 

We did one system with one tap facing forward right in the tank side with the rest of the barrels gang chained to this one. Our 2nd set had all bottom links as shown in the video. Both work equally well but too small a size piping and tap makes for slow flow, which is why I want to switch to a bigger size.

Tops can have removable battens added or simply screened off against midge eggs, etc. You always want to keep the barrel water clear of leaves, debris etc which can make it stink something awful and unpleasant to use. Darker barrels are preferred over the white which grow lots of algae quickly. Open barrels sitting in full sun will grow algae as well regardless of barrel colour.

Another idea we've just implemented is to put an empty, open topped 55 gal barrel on our lawn tractor trailer and use a newly purchased solar rain barrel pump to quickly shift the water from a house barrel into the trailer barrel, which we then take to the barrels out by the veg garden and fruit beds and the solar pump then shifts the water into those. We cannot direct link hoses or pipes to those barrels due to sheer distance and the inconvenience of moving pipes, etc when mowing, playing with dog, etc. The solar charger needs a full day to charge and then it's a work horse for many hours. Very pleased with the results so far. The solar pump wasn't cheap but a good investment for us as our gardens are growing in size now for better self-reliance and our summers are usually very dry.

Hope some of this helps

[Pilko]

If the cut is made right near the top of the vertical side, the removed top can be turned over to sit back on top of the barrel (keeps the water clean and stops it going green/becoming a breeding ground for mosquitoes). A brick on top will stop the lid blowing away and a couple of 10mm holes will allow rain to drain into the barrel.

[fridgesoup]

Trillium - thank you for all of that and the video explains a thousand words!

Pilko - Good idea about the lid.