[edessex]

Hi all, I'm hoping some of you knowledgeable folk can point me in the right direction!

I own a small piece of land, which has been in my family for a number of years.  My dad stuck a few sheds and a poly-tunnel (for veg growing) on there years ago, and also planted fruit trees. The land was also used for general storage.

I had a run-in with the District Council over the use of the land recently, as they said it was still technically registered as agricultural from when it was part of a field prior to the early 1970's, and NOT registered for storage.

The hassle with the council is still going on, but the answer will either be that the land will be registered as 'multiple use; storage and horticulture' or stay as 'agriculture', but in either case I need to replace at least one of the sheds, and add another shed.

I'm trying to figure out if I need planning permission to replace one shed and erect an additional shed, but I can only find out information on residential properties!

Are allotments classed as agriculture?  Are you allowed to erect sheds without submitting planning permission?  Are there any restrictions?

Any advise would be greatly appreciated!

[Yorkie]

Agriculture is defined for planning purposes in s.336 TCPA 1990 as including horticulture, fruit growing, seed growing, dairy farming.

Therefore, the basic growing activities would be covered by the existing planning use, I think.

It is the erection of structures which is causing difficulties and their associated use.

It may be possible for the structures to come under the permitted development rights but these are subject to a council's overall views.

I am not an expert but I am not surprised by the stance of your council if structures have been erected without prior permission, as you are indeed using the land for purposes other than those granted by the existing planning permission.

[edessex]

Hi, thank you for your reply!

So far no structures (except for a movable 1.2m high chicken run) have been erected since the early to mid 1990's, but the recent issue with the council was due to me putting a couple of cars on the piece of land.

This brought the use of the land to the attention of the council, who then demanded the entirety of the land to be cleared of all items, including the sheds.
Although I am willing to remove the cars, I am not happy about removing the content's of the sheds (general household bits, car parts and gardening tools) as they have been used to store these items since the sheds were erected!

So far I've been fighting the council for over 12 months, and we seem to have reached a stalemate!

I think that even if I 'loose' the change of use, and it sticks at agriculture, that they will let me keep any sheds as long as they are no longer used for general storage and car parts, and are only used for horticulture.

The problem is, by the time I actually get an answer the two remaining sheds will have fallen down!

If I can technically erect the new sheds without requiring planning permission, then I can continue with life until the council finally reaches an outcome!

[Yorkie]

Don't know the answer to that.

But if you started storing cars on the field then I'm really not surprised the council aren't happy!

[edessex]

Yeah, I understand their view on the cars.  But the land was used in the past to store cars, and has been continuously used to store trailers and other car accessories / parts, so I didn't really think much of it at the time.  It was only supposed to be temporary while I moved house, but the hassle with the council meant the cars had to stay as I've not had the time to find somewhere more suitable for them, as I don't want them to stay there.

[edessex]

I might have got an answer out of the council today, after they sent me round in circles anyway!

I've been told that ANY shed, whether replacing an existing shed or not, WILL require planning permission if it is being erected on non-residential land. 

However I have read up a lot on sheds not exceeding 6' x 4' being allowed WITHOUT planning permission on allotment ground.  So I'm still confused, as I'm assuming allotment ground doesn't count as residential, and therefore according to the council even a tiny shed would need permission...

The  Town & Country Planning Act 1990 states in Section 55:

"The following operations or uses of land shall not be taken for the purposes of this Act to involve development of the land—"


Part 2e:

"the use of any land for the purposes of agriculture or forestry (including afforestation) and the use for any of those purposes of any building occupied together with land so used"


Plus this (from http://www.planning-applications.co.uk/agric.htm) :

Placing structures on land. Structures may be placed on agricultural land for agricultural purposes without the necessity for obtaining planning permission. However, no building or engineering works must be involved. So a new barn will require permission (see later) but pig arcs or cattle feeders etc do not.


According to the council, for the purposes of Planning, Horticulture would fall within Agriculture.

Therefore,  erecting a small structure (shed) noticeably smaller than a barn, for the purposes of storing horticultural equipment should not count as development and therefore not require planning permission?  Or am I completely misunderstanding?

And does a shed count as building?

[mumofstig]

It seems to me that you can't win as you already have some sheds with no permission and now want to build another one, if I've got that right 

If you clear the land of all the buildings cars etc that shouldn't be there, I'm sure they would nod through a small shed.........but I don't think the land clearance is what you have in mind is it?

[grendel]

I would proceed to repair the sheds, one wall at a time over several months, A bit like triggers broom, that had had several new heads and a few new handles, then you havent put a new shed up, just repaired the existing structure, a new corner post here, a new baseplate there, some new shiplap to replace some that was rotten, and you can gradually replace all the parts whilst still retaining originality.
Grendel

[Yorkie]

This is very technical interpretation of planning law and as far as I am aware we do not have any specialists on it in this gardening forum.

You may find that a planning consultantant is of some use?

[edessex]

@ mumofstig  -Technically you are correct, but the way you put it doesn't make it sound good!

There have been 3 sheds on the land, one was there before my parents bought the land back in the early 1980's, this shed fell down with some 'help' from a few vandals about 5 years ago now.  One shed was erected in the late 1980's, and the remaining one in the early 1990's.  My dad was under the impression that planning permission was not needed back them, whether it actually was or not I don't know.

Out of the 2 remaining sheds, one is in need of repair, and the other is too far gone...
I want to fix the one in need of repair, replace the one which is too far gone, and erect a new shed where the original one used to be.
...So basically put it back how it was!


@ grendel -I like that plan, but the shed I want to replace is too far gone even for that.  It was second hand when it went there, and unless I replace entire side sections at once I think parts would just collapse.


@ Yorkie -I feel you may be right!  I thought it was worth asking on here as I know a lot of people put sheds on allotment land...

[Yorkie]

I have a hunch that allotment land may be a different kettle of fish from farming land, though.

Allotments are created and protected under specific legislation - they may not be 'agricultural' land for planning purposes.  And there is no automatic right to erect a shed on your allotment; it depends on the site owner's views and the details of the tenancy.

[grendel]

@ grendel -I like that plan, but the shed I want to replace is too far gone even for that.  It was second hand when it went there, and unless I replace entire side sections at once I think parts would just collapse.

make a temporary framework inside to support the roof and other walls while you remove each wall to replace it. take photos as you go to evidence the fact you are just repairing each section, then when they query it you have evidence of repair, not replacement, a neat touch is if there is something like a horseshoe hung over the door of the original, to remove it and replace on the repaired one
Grendel

[edessex]

@ grendel -I'll have another look at the shed, and see if I might be able to repair anything!

@ Yorkie -The council told me horticulture falls under agriculture, so I assumed that counted allotments?  I tried hunting through loads of legislations, government websites, and general info websites, but every time I found a reference to a shed, it was to do with residential land.


It's just so frustrating that the land has been used for the same thing for almost 30 years, and now the council are saying we're not allowed to use the land for that!

[nuzuki]

Hi Ed,
It looks like I maybe in a similar position to you in a few years. I have just aquired some paddock land and am thinking of storing cars on there and maybe a trailer or two. I believe a field shelter maybe the answer to get the council off your back. Basically you have to put your sheds on wheels but I think technically one side of the shelter must be open. Ebay or google field shelter for ideas. The other thing is I dont think they can ask you to prove it moves so you could get away with sticking cheap pram wheels on the side with superglue or jam maybe  Its basically a bit of a game and you have to play it that way. Someones obviously a bit miffed at the use of the land a nimby I presume. I think a general tidy up and purchasing some tarpaulins would help a little. My friend was in a similar situation and he bought some shipping containers which apparently got round the need for planning permission.
I hope this helps and best of luck

[edessex]

If I'm honest I wouldn't advise putting yourself in the same situation as I am in!  It's not worth the headache!

Although you wouldn't quite be in the same situation... If you put a field shelter up and stored cars in it, taking photographic evidence every week or so, after a number of years you could have the 'use class' changed, if no-one has queried it by then.

I'm in a much worse situation... My family have used a piece of land for nearly 30 years, not knowing we were using it for 'incorrect purposes', and only now has the council queried it.  But as we were blissfully unaware of our 'wrong-doing' we have not stored a large amount of supporting evidence of the actual land use, if we had I could have just changed the use when the council queried it.
Instead I am in a time-consuming and finance-draining battle against the council, who want the entire land cleared, and I don't just mean the cars need to be gone, I've been told the existing sheds and even the trees have to go!