[bobbyt]

Has anyone used green manures to break up clay soil, mine is fairly heavy but diggable when its wet. If so, how successful and which type of green manure did you use?

I'm desperate to try anything now, I have been working my plot for 5 years now, and have used Gypsum, proprietary clay breakers, and horse manure ( don't think I can get enough of it to my plot though to do any good). I dig it every winter and leave the clods exposed to the frost, if we get any. It is miles better than it was, but I still struggle to plant seed in it, as it is quite lumpy and isn't any kind of a ' tilth' like they show on all gardening shows and you tube videos!

Any shared experience of green manure would be useful to me. Thanks.

[mumofstig]

On my old, small plot where the soil was very heavy clay, I used to sow any clear areas in September with Phacelia tanacetifolia. It was still warm enough for it to grow long roots,  it grew through winter until the first really cold spell killed it. The top growth would wither away but the fibrous roots rotting in place, kept the soil open, so it was much easier to fork over in Spring. I really did notice a difference after a few years of doing so.
I've just ordered some more seeds to sow it on the one really claggy/lumpy bed I have on this plot

[bobbyt]

Thanks. That's one of them I was looking at, also Forage Rye and Field Beans.

[Plot 1 Problems]

I also use Phacelia, just as MoS said. It's also great because you don't have to factor it into your crop rotation unlike some other green manures like mustard or field beans.

[bobbyt]

Thanks for that, think I'll give Phacelia go then. Had a read about it, do you chop it down before it flowers to stop it spreading ?

[mumofstig]

If you sow it in August/September it doesn't have a chance to flower before the cold kills the top growth.

[Stewarty]

I use, and would recommend, Hungarian Grazing Rye.  It's hardy, and lasts through the winter, You can sow it as late as November, though I try to aim for late September or during October. It tends to grow to about 3 to 4 inches in 10 days or so, then pause, then steam ahead around March.  Forms a very good canopy to mitigate erosion effects of heavy winter rain.  I try to cut mine around Easter time  -  as I grow quite large areas I tend to use a strimmer or hover mower to cut it, then leave it for a few days for the ground to dry a bit, then rotavate it in. People with less bad backs than mine can use hand tools!  If you are going to be sowing seed in that ground you have to wait 3 weeks or so, as the Rye apparently has a germination inhibiting chemical, but you can put in plants sooner. I also tend to leave a fringe to grow to full height, some 6 feet or so, and produce seed heads as big as your finger, in high summer, which you can collect for sowing a couple of months later....   Said to have very long, strong penetrating roots, excellent for breaking up the ground. I find it all very satisfying,,,,

[Yorkie]

Oh, memories of rye - never again!  Nightmare to dig in, and many weeks later I was still finding unrotted roots in the soil.  Must try phacelia, though.

[bobbyt]

Yeah, going to try Phacelia I think, sounds good to me.

[JimB]

.
My experience is completely different when I took over my plot the weeds were taller than my little girl, the "soil" was grey Severn clay, that which they used to  puddled the Glos to Sharpness canal, concrete in the summer waterlogged in the winter!

An old chap feeling sorry for me gave me a large bag of seed (wheat,rye or barley?) for so called green manure, it grew well on the area I sowed it, the other smaller area I dug etc as normal.

When I came to dig it in in the springtime it was a pain as it would not rot down and the ground was worse than in the autumn time. The other area which I had dug was at least workable.

In a few short years it has been transformed, we got/get loads of free stable manure, bark chippings which are left to they semi rot, I use it others do not, and make lots of garden compost using the manure and wood chippings to bulk it up.

Once when I was there some builders came onto the plots with a ton bag of coarse sand they wanted rid off, I spread it over part of the soil, it helped for a short while but then disappeared so that was not the answer.

My soil is now very good for digging and planting into, I mostly use a spade to turn over the soil as when using a fork the soil drops through the tines if it is drish.

I think green manuring might have helped in the Dust Bowl in America at the time!

Cheers!