Allotment Gardening Advice Help Chat
Smallhold Farming and Rural Living => Property, Buildings, Equipment and Alternative Energy => Topic started by: John on September 13, 2010, 14:20
-
We've never had a septic tank system before and we're getting conflicting information on them. Some say to empty them every 6 months, some 2 years and some say if you run them properly (??) never!
So any info on them gratefully received.
-
When we moved in to the cottage the tank hadn't been emptied for quite a few years. We had it emptied last year and I doubt it will need doing for at least another 2 years. Ours is an old fashioned hole in the ground type with a natural soak away so I guess more modern ones may need doing more often.
-
there are different types. Some have a soak away/overflow that means with normal use they do not need emptying ( We had to have ours done once in 5 year period, when we had 3 friends staying, so there were lots of extra showers/baths and washing :ohmy:)
My friends had the other kind which retains everything and it needed emtying only when full (Obviously ::) )........the timing depends of course on how much waste you are producing and the size of the tank ;)
-
The key for John will be to find out if the current homeowners know anything about the system - age, type, what kind of maintenance they've had to do, any problems, etc. And go from there. Standard procedure for Cdn homeowners buying a 'new' house with a septic system is that the current owner must have the tank emptied and generally inspected by the removal company, or the lawyers won't allow sign off. Septics can be expensive problems for clients if there are hidden problems so lawyers are careful about this.
Ours was emptied before signing time, a small problem found and fixed, and I'm embarrassed to say that we haven't emptied it in 7 years and really should have it looked at, just in case. But then, we don't use much in chemicals which tend to kill off beneficial bacteria in the holding tanks.
-
As there is only the 2 of us, ours doesn't fill up very often, we've only had it emptied 3 times in the past 8 years, but if you are very good about what you put in it e.g. no bleachy stuff, the little bugs should mean that it doesn't need emptying much at all if there is the overflow/soak away that Mum mentioned.
You could of course have one of the new treatment plants with reed bed etc, which will empty your almost potable water into your local dyke, drain, ditch or whatever.
I'd like the rainwater system which filters the water so you can use it for toilet flushing, washing machine, shower etc, but just don't drink it!!! :D
-
At work we use a Klargester system. It was designed for use for up to 6 people, and under these conditions would hardly ever need to be emptied.
Usually there are around 30 people at work permanently so we have to have it emptied about every 6 months.
-
there are different types. Some have a soak away/overflow that means with normal use they do not need emptying ( We had to have ours done once in 5 year period, when we had 3 friends staying, so there were lots of extra showers/baths and washing :ohmy:)
My friends had the other kind which retains everything and it needed emtying only when full (Obviously ::) )........the timing depends of course on how much waste you are producing and the size of the tank ;)
Kind of correct - those that have no outlet & need emptying when they're full are cess tanks, and are simply a storage facility. What I suspect you may have is a septic tank, which is more than just storage - it is a treatment facilty, using the cold anaerobic digestion process to treat the sewage and render the liquid portion 'safe' to discharge to groundwater, usually via a soakaway. A byproduct of the digestion process is sludge, and this will build up until the tank is full of sludge (and hence no room for the treated liquor). At this point, the tank will require emptying, although a little of the sludge should always be retained to 'start' the treatment process off again as the tank begins to refill (although folk will tell you that flinging a dead rabbit in does the job just as well).
How long it can go between emptying will depend very much upon the size of the tank, and the number of people it serves. Ideally it should be around 2 years, but if its a large tank and there's only a couple of you, it might last several years more. Whether or not 'grey water' e.g. bath waste & the like are connected, will make little difference, as comparatively clean water such as this will pass through the process with little effect on the sludge make - sludge is only produced by the breakdown of organic waste, so length of time between emptying is more dependant upon the amount of faecal matter, food waste, etc than volume (so don't use a food macerator when you've got a septic tank).
To determine whether it needs emptying, you really need to look at what's coming out - there's normally a kind of separator or 'interceptor' arrangement on the outlet, that decants off the treated liquor from above the sludge in the bottom but below the floating matter / fat & grease on the top. If this liquor is heavily laden with sludge solids then the tank probably needs emptying, and failure to do so will quickly result in fouling up / blockage of the soakaway, which will then result in unsightly flooding / nasty smells / a possible visit from the Environment Agency and a bigger bill to reinstate the soakaway than it would have cost to empty the tank.
Hope this helps ;)
-
Thanks ex-cavator - useful info there. We're (sort of) looking forward to finding out where the outlet / soakaway is exactly. We know it's in the front field.. somewhere.
-
I work for a major plant/toilet/accomodation hire company and we do emptying of peoples tanks.
We come across many different types of tanks and agree with what people have said so far. As said, it depends on how many peoples effluent goes in and if it is just a tank or has an outlet.
We've come across tanks that need emptying every 4/6 weeks and some that only need to be done every 2 years!
-
Don't you need to be careful about what detergents you use etc?
-
Oh yes, and that too about detergents and chemicals! :blink:
We get told by the people that work in the sewage treatment works that, that is why it pongs.
People are using all these weired and wonderful all singing all dancing cleaners these days not realising that they keep working all the way down to the works where they need 'good bacteria' to do the 'treatment' work, (that also keeps the smell down), but is being killed off!
I'm not saying don't clean, but we should try and be a bit more, er, eco-friendly?
-
How do you know when they need emptying? I hope there's some way to know before the loo backs up! :(
-
Best to ask the people there when how often they have emptied it and that will give you the best idea for your system.
Ours is an old concrete one apparently but we haven't had to empty it in 9 years and has given us no trouble. You can tell where they outflow goes cos the grass is always greener :lol: To tell if it needs emptying, lift lid and check the level or if you're a wimp wait til it starts to overflow and send for the emptying man quickly :lol: and no it won't back up into the loo unless it is higher than the loo :ohmy:
Even if you have to empty it every couple of years I think it is cheaper than paying for the sewage disposal the normal way??
-
I've seen some tanks develop a 'crust' from the top down over, and so when the crust starts to build up and cover/block the inlet, that's when I think you have to get it emptied.
-
All this talk of emptying cess pits reminded me of the man for the job, the late Blaster Bates, who is available on youtube if you are not offended by colourfull language.
A Cheshire lad too. :D
-
Oh the good old blaster, was a mate of my late uncle. They had so many tales :)
-
Best to ask the people there when how often they have emptied it and that will give you the best idea for your system.
Ours is an old concrete one apparently but we haven't had to empty it in 9 years and has given us no trouble. You can tell where they outflow goes cos the grass is always greener :lol: To tell if it needs emptying, lift lid and check the level or if you're a wimp wait til it starts to overflow and send for the emptying man quickly :lol: and no it won't back up into the loo unless it is higher than the loo :ohmy:
Even if you have to empty it every couple of years I think it is cheaper than paying for the sewage disposal the normal way??
Poolfield - you're confusing me! Once it's filled up the level should always remain the same because - IF indeed it's a septic tank and NOT a cess tank (see my earlier post) - it works on displacement - put a litre of waste in and you get a litre of effluent out. The level is set by that of the outlet pipe. If the level drops, it shouldn't do - you've got a problem i.e. a hole. And if it's overflowing, it's because there's something going in the front end as you're looking at the back end. It's SUPPOSED to overflow, as it's a treatment system, not just a storage tank. So don't go emptying it just because it's overflowing, you're pouring money down the drain. The time to empty it is when the water coming out starts to look really 'sludgey' rather than just blackish water.
Unless, of course, it's a cess tank you've got, and not a septic tank. A cess tank is NOT a treatment system, just a storage tank, and must be emptied when it's full, otherwise it'll just get messy :blush:
-
I'd agree with what Poolfield says. We had a Klargester put into the garden when we moved here 6 years ago, because no-one knew where the tank was for the house ::) and no-one could (apparently) find it. ??? Having located the old tank, we now have a Klargester and backup of old concrete tank which we haven't had to empty in that time.
This is largely because we are very aware of exactly what we put down the toilet/drains. Even little things like cotton buds (if you happened to be in the habit of putting them in the loo?) will sit in the tank and not break down. As has already been mentioned, we use the eco brands of cleaners for dishes, clothes, bathroom, toilet etc, as these all allow the tank to do its work. If you throw loads of bleach and harsh chemicals in there you will kill all the organisms and will have to empty frequently. :)
People we know built a house near here within the last two yearsand therefore installed a new septic tank. Building regs insisted on a maceration system - even in a small house. :blink:
-
What about BR? Mum and Dad won't let me flush BR into their tank (in Portugal - don't know if the climate is significant here) the story is that it makes the wrong sort of sludge that blocks up the soakaway - don't know if this is an urban myth but wouldn't mind knowing the truth.
-
In Greece and many Arab countries, used toilet paper is placed in a bin by the WC. This is primarily because the piping is much smaller than in our systems. The paper bunches up and blocks the pipes.
In Greece the waste just went into holding tanks rather than septic tanks and collected frequently by lorries for dumping elsewhere.
I don't think it's the breakdown of the paper that's a problem - if you put a piece of toilet paper in a bowl of water you'll see it practically dissolves into nothing fairly quickly.
-
In Greece the waste just went into holding tanks rather than septic tanks and collected frequently by lorries for dumping elsewhere.
They use both types, but now I've thought about it my washing machine was 'plumbed in' (I use the term loosely ::)) so that the waste water ran into a storm drain/ditch so the septic tank wasn't overburdened with waste water and the chemicals in the detergent 8)
-
In Greece the waste just went into holding tanks rather than septic tanks and collected frequently by lorries for dumping elsewhere.
They use both types, but now I've thought about it my washing machine was 'plumbed in' (I use the term loosely ::)) so that the waste water ran into a storm drain/ditch so the septic tank wasn't overburdened with waste water and the chemicals in the detergent 8)
I'll pretend I didn't hear that - part of my job is tracing illegal connections into something other than the foul sewer, which directly or indirectly pollute our watercourses :wub:
-
You think your rule applies in Greece as well then..that's funny :lol:..........they really don't take any notice of any rules :tongue2: :lol:
-
But you can have a great time tracking down her Greek place...
I'd start with Cyprus at this time of year :D
-
still 26C in the part of Greece I left 8) ...sighing whistfully as I look out of the window ::)
-
You think your rule applies in Greece as well then..that's funny :lol:..........they really don't take any notice of any rules :tongue2: :lol:
I'd be willing to give it a shot - if I thought my company would pay the travel costs :lol:
-
nice work if you could get it :lol:
you'd find an awful lot of bad connections though....the job could last a lifetime ;)
-
What about BR?
Wasn't sure what you meant by BR.... Yes, as John says paper is fine, it disintegrates. :)
-
Our septic tank system consists of four settling tanks in line draining into a soakaway. There should be a siphoning system between the tanks, but that disappeared many years ago which mean that more sediment than should ends up in the soakaway, which will eventually block up. So far, fingers crossed, it works reasonably well. We can't see our outflow as it is somewhere underneath a concrete yard. Emptying our tank now costs about £100 . As others have said, the tanks are always full, that is the way the system is designed. We were told to have it emptied once a year, but sometimes we 'forget' until a patch of moist, very green grass appears round one of the manholes...
We take no particular care of what goes down the drains.
Our neighbours tanks, which curiously are on our land, need emptying far more often, but they have five children and a hot tub. Their soakaway has drainage fingers leading away under our garden. I wish I had known about this when we moved in and I would have planned round them as plants growing over a finger grow incredibly well. Ten foot sweet peas anyone?
Another 'use' for a septic tank system is to huddle cold frames round them (without covering the manholes of course). Both hot bath water and the fermentation taking place lead to a slightly warmer microclimate.
Gillie
-
I used to grow amazing tomatoes over mine.......they say tasty toms are grown in
lots of err :unsure: manure :lol:
-
nice work if you could get it :lol:
you'd find an awful lot of bad connections though....the job could last a lifetime ;)
Lifetime in Greece - Hmmmmmmmmmmm! ::)
-
Emptying our tank now costs about £100 .
This is cheap. Charges for this service will vary around the country, for instance £140.00 here.
:)
-
Speaking to folk where we stayed in Orkney last week - they were quoted well into 3 figures for emptying theirs, but then "Farmer George from just up the road said he'd do it for 20 quid and spread it on his land". That's why Orkney produce is so good :lol:
-
It does seem stupid to waste a resource! I've steered clear of the 'humanure' ideas that people email me. Without proper treatment, this way lies cholera and typhus!
-
When we moderised out cottage 40 years ago we built a septic tank out of concrete blocks then rendered it inside.It consists of two chambers 4' by 4' and 6' 6" deep.the sewerage enters the first tank near the top via a Tee so as not to not to disturb the surface crust that forms, the action takes place in here and liquid discharges into the second chamber onto a perforated sheet then seeps down through varipus grades of harcore/filter media.
When it gets to the bottom it runs underground through perforated pipes to soak away.
It has only ever been emptied once!! and that was after it was in about 10 years and the children we little we had a washing machine and dishwasher discharging into it and it started to smell..we got rid of the DW and directed the WM into a huge soakaway in the field and have not had a problem since.
smud6ie
-
It seems to me that the amount of water is a big factor in the 'time to empty' of septic tanks. We're going to be replacing the WCs which will mean halving the amount of water discharge there and the washing machine & dishwasher will discharge far less water than they did 10 years ago as well. So hopefully that will be OK.
I need to work out where the water from the sinks / bath / gutters goes to (should be fun!)
-
I put it down to the chemicals that caused our problem!
smud6ie
-
I put it down to the chemicals that caused our problem!
smud6ie
Good point - we use soapnuts for the washing machine and ecover dishwasher tablets so hopefully 'septic safe' - Going to have to avoid bleach though.. not sure about anti-septic handwash. Wonder if that will be diluted enough to not have an effect. Possibly we're over-thinking / worrying :)
-
not sure about anti-septic handwash. Wonder if that will be diluted enough to not have an effect. Possibly we're over-thinking / worrying :)
We use lots of that,as well as swarfega,washing out paint brushes,water based,grout and tiling adhesive trays and tools.
smud6ie
-
"It seems to me that the amount of water is a big factor in the 'time to empty' of septic tanks. "
In what way? plenty of water going through it will dilute any chemicals and should simply drain through into the soakaway.
We do not do anything special on account of our septic tank. We use bleach and ordinary detergents and dishwasher tablets, clean paintbrushes and all the rest. The only thing I have ever avoided was very powerful drain cleaner. There is never any smell.
I think that provided your septic tank is in reasonable health you can just carry on as normal.
Gillie
-
"It seems to me that the amount of water is a big factor in the 'time to empty' of septic tanks. "
Just the stuff put out by the US government.
-
I am not sure that U.S. septic tanks are quite the same as U.K ones. They seem to have things called 'leach fields' which I suppose are substitutes for our soakaways. See for example http://www.edcgov.us/emd/envhealth/homeowner_septic.html
At one time rainwater from our house roof was going into the septic tank. This is naughty and we have now fixed it. However the tank took it in their stride.
Gillie
-
Leach field is actually a better description than our soakaway - although a rose by any other name :)
-
Could you not put some of the waste into a reed bed thing? http://info.cat.org.uk/sites/default/files/documents/SewageTreatmentAndCompostToilets_1.pdf
-
There is or was a large reedbed treatment system near Winchester known to the locals as 'Stinky Hill', it works but i wouldn`t want to live with it. :D
-
I used to work with a guy called that. :D
-
There is or was a large reedbed treatment system near Winchester known to the locals as 'Stinky Hill', it works but i wouldn`t want to live with it. :D
And don't they use it to grow watercress?
-
There is or was a large reedbed treatment system near Winchester known to the locals as 'Stinky Hill', it works but i wouldn`t want to live with it. :D
And don't they use it to grow watercress?
I don`t think it meets the criteria of springwater. :D
-
There is or was a large reedbed treatment system near Winchester known to the locals as 'Stinky Hill', it works but i wouldn`t want to live with it. :D
And don't they use it to grow watercress?
I don`t think it meets the criteria of springwater. :D
I did here of some such sort of setup ....... ???
-
When we moved in 14 years ago our building society insisted on septic tank survey using a camera - never saw the pix but it must have passed.
Its an old brick built one which sits under the front lawn - so when we needed to empty it i had to lift some turf and move some soil! Less than ideal but fortunately we have only had to empty it once - 2 years ago. Dont know when it was emptied befor that.
We had to have it emptied because the soak away pipes were sludged up. And then locate and clean out the pipes - lawn has just about recovered.
Both Tesco and Morrisons sell septic tank friendly disinfectant
-
Hi , we have two sorts of tank. We have the now illegal concrete box in the ground, which is large but needs emptying every 4 months ( just for toilet) out dirty water goes through a pipe into the field!
Last year we had a new type put in , but as we do not intend to keep any of the current water outlets only the outhouse water goes into it! It will eventually take all water
By law in France, the fosse must be emptied every three years and all the paperwork kept to prove it, an inspector is apparently sent out every so often to check all is well.
-
By law in France, the fosse must be emptied every three years and all the paperwork kept to prove it, an inspector is apparently sent out every so often to check all is well.
And in France they have a philosophy of "Why use one form when 3 will do it?" :)
-
"How do you know when they need emptying? "
First you need to find your septic tank, John. (You'll need to know, sooner or later) ;)
On the outflow side, there sould be an inspection trap, about 1 or 2 feet from the tank.
If, as excavator said, the outflow is fairly clear (like medium dirty wahing-up water) then it's OK. If any sign of blackish mateial, or white crusty stuff, then probably time to act.
We had a 3000 liter tank for 2 adults + 2 children, and it was only emptied twice in 20 years.
In the countryside, it's usually a local (pig) farmer who empties them: much cheaper than the high-tech wizz-kids.
-
We have actually managed to locate it now! :D :D :D
-
Great :D
You'd be surprised how many people have no idea where their tank is.
Make sure you don't lose it now: take measurements from two fixed points, or (as I do) place a large marker stone over it.
Have you any idea when it was installed?
-
Not a clue! But we believe it was last emptied in 2004. Next door neighbour said they'd had a blockage - he's about an acre away but came to introduce himself.
-
If John's got nothing to do this week-end ( ;) ) you could open it up to see what's
going on . . . .
On the other hand, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. :D It should be OK for a few more years.
PS you should avoid sending bleach &/or organic solvants to a septic tank: they don't like it.
-
Thanks for the advice - yajotl - no not a word in Welsh
Yet Another Job On The List :)
-
Well, you've got to keep a few for a rainy day, when you're bored :D :D