Allotment Gardening Advice Help Chat
Poultry and Pets => Pets without Feathers => Topic started by: AmandaH on November 03, 2009, 10:40
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Oh boy, did I open a can of worms but I started worrying about Plod.
Having spent most of yesterday surfing the worldwide network interweb thingy, there seems to be NO CONSENSUS WHATSOEVER on how to keep flippin' tortoises. Some say they have to be hibernated, others say not. Some say give them protein such as cat food, others say under no circumstances. Some say they need a heat lamp in winter, others say unnecessary.
To a tortoise amateur like me, it is all getting a bit stressful.
And I'm not calling the MIL as I'll never get her off the phone.
Anyway, I have a new problem. Plod has stopped eating. Most resources I can find seem to say that tortoises stop eating about this time as they are winding down for hibernation and need their digestive system to be empty. Plod is otherwise fine - his eyes are clear and scarily beady, his rear end is clean, he doesn't smell or have anything weeping or sore, his shell is shiny and clean with no flaky bits and, after a short battle which I was always going to win, I could see his mouth is clean with no yukky bits. He was mooching about the kitchen yesterday with a face like a wet Wednesday in Wolverhampton but I think he always looks like that :D
So, is there anyone out there who can tell me if I need to worry about him? BECAUSE I AM!
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He was mooching about the kitchen yesterday with a face like a wet Wednesday in Wolverhampton but I think he always looks like that :D
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Sorry Amanda, I know it was a plea from the heart etc, but you have given me the best laugh of the day!!! Thank you!
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Oh thank goodness, as soon as I posted that, I thought "Oh no, I'm going to have the residents of Wolverhampton down on me like a ton of bricks"! :D
Glad it made you smile instead.
Anyway, to anyone in the vicinity of Wolverhampton, can I just say - I've never been there, sure it's a very nice place and it's just an expression that I picked up from somewhere. No slur is intended on Wolverhampton, it just happens to start with the same letter as wet and Wednesday. It could just as well be Wigan. Or Weymouth, if you think I'm being biased towards the area north of Watford. Ah! There's another one... :D
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Actually, looking out of the window, wet Tuesdays in Buckinghamshire (somewhere in the middle of Aylesbury, Tring and Leighton Buzzard) aren't that much to write home about either...
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AHHHH, you do care 8) see he's growing on you ;)
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Shouldn't that be a Wet Wednesday in Waterford ?
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aw Mand, any idiot can see you've fallen for him hook line and sinker :lol: :lol: :lol:
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But, Amanda, surely MIL left you a tortoise keeping manual?
I'd look after him according to her instructions as that is what he is used to, regardless of how others keep theirs. That way if anything does go wrong, you'll surely be blameless :nowink:
(Mine, and I'm going back 25 years, used to be tucked up in bed by now and of course they didn't eat when hibernating, but they had stuffed themselves silly for some weeks before turning in for the winter).
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tode - ha ha ha ha...
No no no TMG, I have not fallen for him but I am responsible for him :( and he's scaring the life out me because I have no idea what he should be doing. If only she'd left me a hamster or something, I'd know where I was with that.
No Rubellite - MIL said to put him outside if it was warm enough and sunny, keep him indoors if not. Feed him mixed veg, greens, bit of salad, odd bit of fruit. And that he doesn't hibernate but may nod off for a few days at a time and then wake up. That was it. The scary thing is that what MIL suggests seems to go against everything the serious tortoise websites suggest. Like she says he loves peas and green beans, tortoise websites say no peas and green beans. She says he doesn't hibernate, just mooches around the house, TWs say he should hibernate or, if not, kept under a heat lamp but he's never seen a heat lamp in his life!
I've just checked on him and he's asleep. At least, I hope he is! Just kidding - I gave him a poke and he stuck his head out and glared at me.
He can't go to sleep as he surely hasn't eaten enough and, having got the kitchen scales and a ruler out yesterday (the Jackson ratio method!), he is underweight for his size and wouldn't survive hibernation (allegedly).
(sigh)
It's no good, I am going to have to call the MIL...
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I wouldn't ! :ohmy:
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I can't see that it would ever be warm enough at this time of year for a tortoise to be outside! It's natural for a tortoise to slow down and stop eating as it's instincts are telling it to sleep because of the colder weather. Even a sunny day won't provide enough warmth to keep a tortoise going for long.
The only reason a tortoise would stay awake through winter is because of age, being underweight or living in a suitably warm enviroment.
I would just leave him inside and keep offering him food and make sure he is warm enough. Going outside this time of year will just confuse him. Even a house that is not heated all day can cause a tortoise to attempt to hibernate.
Failing that - tell MIL he escaped and send him my way ;)
Good luck Amanda :D
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Hi there.
I recently bought a boa constrictor and didnt know much about them either! (Nowt to be hounest!!) But i found this really good forum. They have a section dedicated entirely to tortoises. If you cant find what you need just ask a member of the forum!! SIMPLES!!!!
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I would just leave him inside and keep offering him food and make sure he is warm enough. Going outside this time of year will just confuse him. Even a house that is not heated all day can cause a tortoise to attempt to hibernate.
I think you're right and this is the way to go Snap Dragon. Especially as I read on one of the tortoise-fest sites yesterday that tortoises eyeballs can freeze solid if they get cold enough. How horrible is that? By keeping him in, keeping him warm and offering him food, I don't see how I can go too far wrong.
gowing238 - thanks a million, that's brilliant. I will be signing up and bothering them about Plod!
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PS to gowing238 - please can I come round and cuddle your boa constrictor? I LOOOOOVE snakes - they'd be my dream pet!
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Especially as I read on one of the tortoise-fest sites yesterday that tortoises eyeballs can freeze solid if they get cold enough. How horrible is that?
That's exactly what happened to ours... He was tucked up sleeping soundly in his special hibernation box one winter... the vet thought he'd opened his eyes after a very mild spell and then was hit by sub zero temps the next week!
Result was blindness :(... he was fine... could smell food a mile away but we couldn't keep him away from the pond ( it's amazing how torts can a) dig and b) climb!!)... so he went to a new home where there was no water!
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Maybe you could buy him a sun bed ?
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and sit there peeling him grapes ;) :lol: :lol:
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.... and a tiny pair of shades. :D
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And maybe some sort of tortoise cocktail? Complete with a little umbrella and a slice of cucumber?
Yeah, right.
No, he'll be upgraded from the conservatory to the utility room (warmer) and offered food and water but that's his lot. Don't want him getting comfortable here. He's going back to his Mum on 6 January and not a day later!
And if he plays me up any more, he's going to get posted to Fremantle. Sure he'll be OK in a box with holes!
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.... and a tiny pair of shades. :D
don't forget his beach towel and bucket and spade ::)
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Do they make swimming trunks for tortoises ?
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Do they make swimming trunks for tortoises ?
If they did I bet they wouldn't be Speedos! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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And maybe some sort of tortoise cocktail? Complete with a little umbrella and a slice of cucumber?
Strawberry daiquiri :tongue2:
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Or a Pimms?? The borage flowers would match his eyes.... :lol:
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You lot are madder than a box of frogs
But I love you :D
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Do they make swimming trunks for tortoises ?
If they did I bet they wouldn't be Speedos! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
:lol: :lol:
I'm loving reading about the antics of plod ( such a great name)... :lol:
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I'm loving reading about the antics of plod ( such a great name)... :lol:
Me too!
And isn't it nice to see how Amanda loves him a little bit more everyday!! ;) :lol:
(http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Animals/turtle-e90.gif) (http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Laughing/hahaha-024.gif)
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I do NOT love him. He's a vile reptilian... thing. With beady beady eyes. Who won't eat any of the lightly steamed vegetables that I prepared for him.
Anyway, just off to Heathrow to drop off Hubby as he is going to join his Mum, Dad and assorted other relatives for the Wedding of the Year in Fremantle. Perhaps I could sneak Plod into the suitcase?! :D
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Steamed vegetables ? ? ? ? :blink: :blink:
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Yes, tode. Steamed. And, no, I'm not spoiling him, it's just that he has a handful of frozen mixed veg and the quickest and easiest way of making it unfrozen and cooked is to steam it.
Actually, I could put it in the microwave, couldn't I?
OK, so it looks bad, but it's NOT BECAUSE I LOVE HIM in any way, shape or form.
I love Mavis, Queenie, Elvis and Dolly the chooks. I love my cat Betsy. I'm quite keen on my fish, even though they don't have names. I deffo love Hubby and Daughter. I am even quite fond of the bloomin' great arachnid currently residing in the shower room. But I DON'T LOVE PLOD.
And, no, the lady does not protest too much. I mean, what is there to like about a tortoise?
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Tortoise-shell ? :lol: :lol: (sorry)
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I note that Hubby and Daughter come after the chooks and the cat in the lovin' list. Which is how it should be ;) but
I'm sure the Betsy thinks she should come first ...
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I thought that tortoises only ate fresh veg not cooked :unsure:
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I thought that tortoises only ate fresh veg not cooked :unsure:
I thought so too but it depends on what website you look at and what breed of tortoise.
Some sites say to feed meat and cat food ??? where as others say it's a complete no no!
Fruit should only be given once or twice a month, the same with cabbage and similar veg!
It's soooo much more in depth than when we had one years ago :wacko:
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Well they certainly wouldn't get it cooked in the wild...would they ::) :lol:
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Right, back from airport...
Betsy has been wearing her most put-out expression since the day the chooks arrived. Especially as I lost my much-loved other cat, Binky, about two weeks before the chooks arrived. So, for Betsy, it has been a double insult. Loss of her bezzy mate and then arrival of nasty feathered things.
I wondered about the whole cooked/uncooked veg thing but I do it "al dente" for the best of both worlds :D
And you're right Snap Dragon, I don't remember tortoises being very complicated when I was a little girl - they were just grumpy-looking things that lived in people's gardens and ate cucumber...
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Or lettuce .... ::)
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Mine ate strawberries and occasionally my toes!! :lol:
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Can I just say thank you Amanda for a most entertaining thread (or two) about Plod. If ever you write a book, have a chapter dedicated to him. :D
From what Iv found out about hedgehogs, I don't think hibernation for any animal is actually essential as long as you keep them warm and fed. It's only an adaptation to survive the cold and shortage of food. Its actually a potentially dangerous thing in the wild.
By New Year, you'll be shedding a tear or two. ;)
Rob
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Hi Amanda, only just seen this and quickly read through the posts. Can you give me a little info on Plod.
How big is he, are you sure its a he.
How long have you had him
Has he been eating and what have you been feeding him.
Is he out side free ranging, is he digging himself into the ground on dull days, does he have a house he goes into at night.
Where did he come from.
The main thing is size and weight.
I've got 4, had them over 30years. Hope i can help you.
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Hello Spana - sorry, only just spotted your reply and would appreciate any help you can give.
In answer to your questions:
I couldn't be entirely sure that Plod is a "he", he has just always been referred to as a "he";
He is 18.6cm long and weighs 1220 grammes (I measured him and weighed him to work out the Jackson ratio thing);
I got him in mid-October from my MIL who is in Australia for three months and left me to look after him (back 6 January and I'm counting the days);
Yes, he has been eating, on and off (MIL says he doesn't hibernate but nods off for a few days at a time, eating in between naps);
I have been feeding him mixed veg, a bit of salad and apple;
I've also been giving him water (even though MIL said not to) as I read it on all the tortoise websites;
He was outside when he was first here and it was warmer. He has a house and a pen outside (I wasn't having him free ranging the garden as he does at home as I was terrified of losing him);
Now it is colder he is in the conservatory which, on sunny days, gets very warm (so he wakes up and eats, like today when he scoffed down lots) and, on dull days, stays quite cool (it's unheated) and so he is very sleepy, stays in his bed (a cat bed, inside a cat box, with newspaper that he hides under) and won't eat anything I put down.
I have no idea where he originally came from - the MIL has had him for 18 years. He free ranges around their house and garden as he pleases (most of their house isn't centrally heated though, hence MIL's suggestion that he live in our conservatory). In the winter, at home with MIL, he tends to live in the kitchen. He's never seen a heat lamp in his life.
Lastly, please don't shout at me :D The MIL dumped him on me with the briefest of instructions and it is because I am worried that I might be doing the wrong thing and harming him that I have been trying to get some advice.
Any help you can give me would be appreciated.
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Sorry, didn't know the story. Thought you might have one of those tiny hatchlings that you see for sale in the garden centers.
I think what you are doing sounds fine as its what hes used to. Give him access to water even if he shows no interests in it. They need a low flat dish so they can stretch their heads out and down. I wouldn't let him out side now even if its warm as he will start to dig himself in as the temperature starts to drop in the afternoon. If he can get warm enough to eat all the better if he is not going to hibernate, but if hes warm enough to eat he will also be warm enough to be active and they are very good climbers ::)so watch out :lol:
They like big food that they can pull against,like half a lettuce, a tomato cut in half or a lump of cucumber not thin slices that he may find hard to pick up.
But it sound to me as if you are doing all you can to keep him ok until his mum comes home :)
Whats his shell like underneath, girls are flat, boys are concave to fit over the girls back :wub: :lol:
PM me if you are worried at all but i think you're doing great. :)
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Phew, that's a relief Spana - thank you so much for putting my mind at rest.
The digging thing is partly why I don't want him free ranging the garden. He *completely* disappeared three days after he arrived here and I completely panicked. Turned out, after hours of searching, that he'd just buried himself right in the middle of the prickliest shrub in the garden. He hadn't even dug himself in and I couldn't find him! Wasn't going through that again :D
Interesting about the "big" food - didn't know that so will try it. I have been giving him cooked veg - does it matter if it's cooked or raw?
I thought his underneath was flat (when I was looking him over to see if he was OK the other day) but, next time he wakes up, I'll upset him by turning him over.
Thanks again x
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I have been giving him cooked veg - does it matter if it's cooked or raw?
Thanks again x
I would only give him raw. If you do continue to feed him makes sure he doesn't get cold enough to fall into hibernation as he then needs to have an empty gut. I dont feed mine for the last month before i put them to bed.
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If you do continue to feed him makes sure he doesn't get cold enough to fall into hibernation as he then needs to have an empty gut. I dont feed mine for the last month before i put them to bed.
But I can't just stop feeding him if he is awake, can I? I don't want to starve him! So far, although he has been sleepy and lethergic, he isn't actually asleep. When tortoises hibernate, are they *really* asleep. I mean, if you pick them up, do they wake up?
This whole "having to have an empty tummy before going to sleep" thing was what I was worried about. I think perhaps it is just easier to keep him warm and awake (ish) and feed him when he wants it.
The MIL says he does sleep but only for a max of four or five days at a time. I guess that's because he lives indoors in the winter and, although it's cool because of the lack of central heating, it's not cold. Although I am not convinced that he is ever really asleep as in hibernating, just sluggish because it's cool.
Thanks so much for your help. It was so hard to know what to do...
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Just a suggestion:
Gopher Tortoise Stew
Also known as the "Hoover chicken," the gopher tortoise was a staple in the diets of Minorcans, Florida natives, and Depression-era families. The exact composition of Gopher Tortoise Stew depended on what ingredients were available at the time, but this is a typical recipe. Today, the gopher tortoise is a protected species, but you can substitute alligator or pork.
Cut meat into 2-inch pieces and simmer in salted water until tender. In a large Dutch oven, fry some salt pork until crisp and the fat is rendered. Add meat and brown. Add a generous amount of chopped onion, some chopped bell pepper, minced garlic, diced tomatoes and simmer for 20 minutes.
Then add the water the meat was cooked in, some diced potatoes, a few bay leaves, salt and black pepper to taste, and a fresh datil pepper or a dash of datil pepper sauce. Simmer for 1½ to 2 hours over low heat. If necessary, thicken stew with a little flour dissolved in water, or some mashed hard-boiled egg yolks. For those that could afford the luxury of dry sherry, a dash would be added just before serving.
Serve piping hot with rice and corn pone.
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Tode, thats wicked :lol:
Altho awake he may not always be warm enough to eat. Dont worry too much, he has survived for 18years with the routine that you're giving him. What you dont want is for him to get so cold that he goes into hibernation which is different from sluggish . When in hibernation they still move about a little, their eyes are shut tight but if you pick them up you can just see a slight movement of the head or limbs. Mine are asleep for up to 5months so need the empty gut. They slow themselves down and get ready for hibernation, they know what they're about. I just have to get the timing right.
If you think about the way Plod is going on, he is getting ready for how he thinks his winter is going to be. Some tortoises in the wild must go on just as he is, never cold enough for hibernation but cold enough to be asleep or sluggish, waiting for it to warm up a bit.
As long as you keep an eye on him, dont let him get frosted and if he looks as if he will eat offer he something. If the temperature in the conservatory falls below 5 make sure he is covered up.
Its not easy getting tortoise info even now, conflicting ideas everywhere and i can only go on what i've learned from watching my bunch. Many died in the first winter after capture, they suffered terrible cruelty through ignorance. But i've kept mine alive and well for over 30 years and your MIL has done the same for 18 so we must be doing something right :)
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As long as you keep an eye on him, dont let him get frosted and if he looks as if he will eat offer he something. If the temperature in the conservatory falls below 5 make sure he is covered up.
I was going to mention about the conservatory as well.... Temperatures in them can fluctuate wildly this time of year and mine gets really cold over night as I refuse to heat it 24/7!!! (I do my ironing in mine and although it's got under floor heating I still put an oil heater in there to boost the warmth :happy:)
Thanks for joining this thread Spana... it's years since I had a tortoise so it's nice to have some expert help here. :)
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Ugh, tode, you've made me feel really ill. Even if I didn't have Plod, I still can't bear the thought of try to eat a tortoise. Trying to break into the shell? And all that horrid wrinkly-old-man skin? Makes me quite queasy. You recipe skips right over the nasty bit to "cut meat into two inch pieces..." :wacko: <- closest I could find to "sick"
Yes, temp does fluctuate in the conservatory wildly. If it's sunny, it gets *very* hot as it gets the sun all day. Then he is mooching about. But, it's never frosty in there (it's a proper brick-built conservatory with double glazing) and he is in a (furry!) cat bed, inside a cat basket with his blanket (!) over it, off the floor, with a week's worth of newspapers to ferret about in - he can't get that cold, can he? We do have one of those oil heaters in there but we never use it as we simply don't go in there when it's too chilly. But I can put that on low to keep the chill off at nights if it would help?
And Spana - that's what I thought "Oh, he's survived 18 years with this routine, so MIL must have been doing something right". Then I read on one of the tortoise sites that, actually, it can take years for a tortoise to succumb to a routine that's wrong for him and that, rather than surviving for 18 years, the way the website put it was that the tortoise is slowly dying over those years! Can you imagine how bad I felt when I read that? Even though I'd only been looking after him for about six weeks of those 18 years!
Here we go, this is one of the things I read that worried me:
"People think that a tortoise will acclimatise if they put it in their garden - nothing could be farther from the truth. The tortoise may exist, miserably for many years but it will not thrive and, eventually, it will die prematurely from malnutrition. It will never, ever acclimatise."
From slowcoach.org (good name!).
And the MIL is one of those women where it's her way or the highway. If I tried to tell her she'd been doing it wrong, she'd talk my head off!
Anyway, big hugey thanks to Spana and everyone who has helped in the care of Plod.
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I think there are always experts just waiting to tell us all where we are going wrong with what ever we do.
Ive been to zoos and seen tortoises struggling to pick up thinly sliced and chopped up food from the ground. They had been fed by the experts. In the wild they would be pulling against a plant anchored by its roots, not wasting energy trying to pick up a thin slice of cucumber.
I wonder how many experts have managed to keep a tortoise alive for 18 years.
You go with your gut filling, he'll be Ok :)
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Thanks Spana! When the experts can't even seem to agree, it's a nightmare to know what to do for the best...
Cheers all :D