Aquarium

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Ma and Pa Snip

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Re: Aquarium
« Reply #30 on: March 02, 2011, 12:44 »
Ammonia/Nitrites/Nitrates build up over time due to fish content. Usually through excessive content and overfeeding. A well managed system should not encounter this problem. A new system certainly wont unless they have a very dodgy water supply.

A new tropical tank might need Ph adjustment subject to local water conditions and the type of fish to be kept, but does not need adjustments for what you mention.

The biggest issue when filling a new tank, or doing a partial water change in a established tank, is Chlorine dispersement.

When setting up a new aquarium it is wise to set the tank up fully, with  live plants if that is what is required, and leave it for a few days. Running the system with lights, heating, pump, filter etc working in the normal way as if it contained fish.  The purpose of this is to allow the water to age slightly, and to give the plants a chance to establish themsleves before introducing fish.

Granted, adding too many new fish to an already established aquarium which contains fish could cause a peak, but it is subject to the overall quantity and size of fish in relation to the size of tank and surface area.

 





Unless otherwise stated it can be assumed ALL posts are by Pa Snip

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Casey76

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Re: Aquarium
« Reply #31 on: March 02, 2011, 13:14 »
Ammonia/Nitrites/Nitrates build up over time due to fish content.

This shouldn't happen unless your tank is overstocked.

You want to encourage Nitrosomas and Nitrobacter to colonise your tank (in the gravel and in the filter media) which will convert ammonia into nitrite (Nitrosomas) and then into nitrates (Nitrobacter).  It is the ammonia and nitrites which are toxic.  If your tank is properly cycled ammonia and nitrite levels should be negligable.

To manage the nitrate levels you should do a 10% water change once a week - but do not sanitize the filter media, otherwise you will kill off your "friendly" bacteria and basically "de cycle" your tank.

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Ma and Pa Snip

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Re: Aquarium
« Reply #32 on: March 02, 2011, 14:08 »
Ammonia/Nitrites/Nitrates build up over time due to fish content.

This shouldn't happen unless your tank is overstocked.
Thats what I said. 

  If your tank is properly cycled ammonia and nitrite levels should be negligable.
and I said if managed properly they shouldnt exist. color]

To manage the nitrate levels you should do a 10% water change once a week


10% water change every week !!!
That's  making a chore of fishkeeping.

I have never yet come across a UK aquatic store that has suggested that fish were 'expendable', and no tropical fish are cheap. Some are just less expensive than others.

I think you and I will agree to differ.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2011, 14:28 by Ma and Pa Snip »

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Paul Plots

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Re: Aquarium
« Reply #33 on: March 02, 2011, 15:07 »
Ammonia/Nitrites/Nitrates build up over time due to fish content.

This shouldn't happen unless your tank is overstocked.
Thats what I said. 

  If your tank is properly cycled ammonia and nitrite levels should be negligable.
and I said if managed properly they shouldnt exist. color]

To manage the nitrate levels you should do a 10% water change once a week


10% water change every week !!!
That's  making a chore of fishkeeping.

I have never yet come across a UK aquatic store that has suggested that fish were 'expendable', and no tropical fish are cheap. Some are just less expensive than others.

I think you and I will agree to differ.

Once a fortnight but, there again, it depends on how many fish : tank size & filtration system.
Never keep your wish-bone where your back-bone ought to be.

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Foghorn-Leghorn

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Re: Aquarium
« Reply #34 on: March 02, 2011, 18:17 »
A good way to kick start a filter system cycling (only applies if you know someone with a tank, mind) is to put a filter sponge or other filter medium in their filter for a few weeks - it then gets populated with bacteria. 
After setting up your own tank, you then take the sponge (don't let it dry out) and add to your tank's own filter system and it really does help get things going.  It's adviseable to use a pinch of fish food to "feed" the filter until you are at a stage to introduce the first FEW fish. 
It takes 6 weeks for a filter system to mature and be propery cycled and it's not something you can rush or as others have mentioned, you run the risk of "crashing" the tank.
"The chicken came firstGod would look silly sitting on an egg."

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spottymint

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Re: Aquarium
« Reply #35 on: March 02, 2011, 21:19 »
Hi

Another way to start a tank is to syphon water from an established tank & add it to the water (de-chlorinated) in the new tank.

Problem if you don't have a tank already or know someone with a healthy tank to donate.

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New shoot

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Re: Aquarium
« Reply #36 on: March 03, 2011, 15:36 »
This maybe a daft question, but I am new to aquarium keeping.

When I started both my 60L and later my 90L planted tank I used a tap water treatment to dechlorinate the water and then added Nutrafin Cycle to the planted tanks - no fish at this stage.  I was told the Cycle added the bacteria I needed to start up.  I didn't add any fish for 2 months and then only very gradually.  Is this the same as the cycling you are talking about  :unsure:  The product is not cheap so I hope I wasn't sold a line  ::)

I now do a fortnightly 25% water change with treated water and just rinse my filter sponges through in old tank water if they get a bit clogged.  I did have an inital algae bloom but controlled this with a phosphate absorbtion bag in the filter and my little algae eating fishes  :)

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Ma and Pa Snip

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Re: Aquarium
« Reply #37 on: March 03, 2011, 16:52 »
Products like Nutrafin Cycle are an aid to kick starting the bacterial process and whilst I wouldn't say you were sold a line they are not always necessary.

These products are relatively recent innovations, relative to how long fishkeeping has been a hobby that is, they really started to hit the market in a big way in the UK in the 80's.

A new tank, which is what the original question was about, can be started without use of such or even de-chlorination products.
Providing new water is well air rated and left for a while before fish are introduced there is no need to add such items.

Bacteria kick start products came along as an aid to speeding up processes. Now people swear they are a 'must have & must use' because that is what the marketing told them.

Where people make the biggest  mistake is by adding a large amount of fish all at the same time, and that applies to a new or established aquarium set up.
If they have been told their aquarium will hold 20 fish, they attempt to add all 20 at once, and usually as soon as they have put the water in.

New Shoots, the likelihood is that your algal bloom was caused by the tank either being sited where it caught too much sunlight or the aquarium light was left on too long

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Paul Plots

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Re: Aquarium
« Reply #38 on: March 04, 2011, 00:03 »
Wow Ma and Pa Snip..... there's someone who knows their onions aquariums!!  :)

I've been keeping tropical fish for around 30 years (fewer tanks now that I'm married) and we did cope without all those wonderful new fangled commercial chemical additives.

As you say... a bit of patience and care.... rather than everything whooshed into a tank at once.  ;)

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Ma and Pa Snip

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Re: Aquarium
« Reply #39 on: March 04, 2011, 07:05 »
Wow Ma and Pa Snip..... there's someone who knows their onions aquariums!!  :)

I've been keeping tropical fish for around 30 years (fewer tanks now that I'm married) and we did cope without all those wonderful new fangled commercial chemical additives.

As you say... a bit of patience and care.... rather than everything whooshed into a tank at once.  ;)

Hi Learner, for various reasons that I won't put on the board I should know a reasonable amount about aquariums and aqauarium products, but I don't call myself an 'expert', far from it.
Apart from the unstated reasons, I started keeping fish personally from the age of 5 and I'm now 62.

However I have never kept,  and therefore know sweet naff all about, marines (both fish and military  :D :D )





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Paul Plots

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Re: Aquarium
« Reply #40 on: March 04, 2011, 07:07 »
Wow Ma and Pa Snip..... there's someone who knows their onions aquariums!!  :)

I've been keeping tropical fish for around 30 years (fewer tanks now that I'm married) and we did cope without all those wonderful new fangled commercial chemical additives.

As you say... a bit of patience and care.... rather than everything whooshed into a tank at once.  ;)

Hi Learner, for various reasons that I won't put on the board I should know a reasonable amount about aquariums and aqauarium products, but I don't call myself an 'expert', far from it.
Apart from the unstated reasons, I started keeping fish personally from the age of 5 and I'm now 62.

However I have never kept,  and therefore know sweet naff all about, marines (both fish and military  :D :D )


I know tons about marines.... they're salty  :lol:

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Dominic

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Re: Aquarium
« Reply #41 on: March 15, 2011, 09:26 »
Dont try Marine first
Its SERIOUSLY difficult

Get the biggest tank you can, bigger is easier.
Same with chickens really.....

If you do get a big tank, get a big external filter.
I have a 300 litre tank and a canister filter rated for 400 litres.

I wouldnt say proximity to water matters, mine isnt, just buy a bucket  :)

Cycling can be a bit of a religion to some people but here goes.

Fish eat fish food.
Fish Turn fish food in ammonia.
Amonia is poisionous to fish and will kill them in even small amounts.
Different Bacteria turn ammonia into Nitrite
Nitrite is even more poisionous to fish and will kill them in small amounts
Different bacteria turn Nitrite into Nitrate.
Nitrate is poisionous to fish in large doses.
The only way to remove Nitrate is to remove water from the tank and replace it.
(well, there are ways, but not for the first timer)

If you buy a 100L tank, and fill it with 100L of fish, the ammonia level will increase faster than the ammonia eating bacteria and your fish will die.
If any of them somehow survive, long enough for the ammonia producing bacteria to grow, well, the ammonia producing bacteria start churning out even more toxic stuff, and they all die of nitrite poisioning.

That said, I cycled my 300L tank with 5 Neon Tetras, and tested the ammonia daily, never moved.  I then added fish in small numbers until I was fully stocked.
Its concentrations of ammonia that matter and my 5 tetras were never to make  enough fast enough to be a danger to themselves in that size tank.

I change 10% of the water each week with a gravel vac.

Borrowing a friends filter is a quick way of speeding the process up.

If you google 'fishless cycle', you should get a good guide.

Really, you need a liquid test kit too.
We use chemicals in this garden, just as god intended

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Lindeggs

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Re: Aquarium
« Reply #42 on: March 15, 2011, 22:38 »
*raises hand*

Another fish keeper here - fresh water tropicals. 

My oldest fish are about 12 years old (clown loaches) but I've been keeping fish much longer than that. 

I recommend joining a fish-keeping forum and reading all you can about the subject before you start.  The most important things to understand and plan for are:
- The nitrogen cycle
- The importance of not over-stocking
- The needs of different fish for temperature, pH, schooling, etc and therefore what will be suitable breeds for your tank
- A basic maintenance regime

I support the comments that a bigger tank is better, and under-stocking is also recommended.  Don't fill the space just because you have it!

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Herb

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Re: Aquarium
« Reply #43 on: March 30, 2011, 21:31 »
I've kept and bred trops for years - I used to have a fish room with 20 odd tanks for breeding a variety of dwarf cichlids.

Now I just have a simple community tropical, and a nano reef aquarium.

There has been lots of good advice on this thread already - and there are many aquarium forums out there to use (some are friendlier than others).

Marines are more complicated, it's taken me years of keeping trops before I felt confident enough to go for it, but in all honesty, things can be done simpler, and marines don't have to be difficult and certainly don't have to be expensive.



 

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