Green Manure vs no dig

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Yorkie

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Re: Green Manure vs no dig
« Reply #15 on: September 21, 2018, 21:52 »
I must confess I am a bit confused by the conflicting views on using Green Manure over winter !!
So to be clear , no green manure eg Mustard seeds for next years Legumes or Brassicas ?
Better cover the ground with black sheets /
Thanks

Mustard is a member of the brassica family, so a) don't use it at all if you have clubroot problems; and b) include it as a brassica in your rotation planning. Hence not using it in the same year as your other brassicas
I try to take one day at a time, but sometimes several days all attack me at once...

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yorky

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Re: Green Manure vs no dig
« Reply #16 on: September 22, 2018, 22:07 »

Each to their own of course but I'd much rather have something in the ground cultivating the soil rather than hiding it under plastic!
I completely agree with this. We have just had one of the driest summers on record. To now cover your soil with something that prevents the winter rains from soaking in would be just asking for trouble.
Sets a low standard and fails to achieve it.

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Stewarty

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Re: Green Manure vs no dig
« Reply #17 on: September 22, 2018, 22:38 »
I've been using grazing rye as an over-winter green manure for over 20 years now, latterly in a mix with winter tares / vetch. As a sign of being a harmless old gentleman with too much time on his hands, I will often leave a fringe to grow on to full height, some 6 feet or so, with seed heads as long as your longest finger. Then in July or August collect the seed heads (one at a time) into a large box or bag, then re-sow them on to bare ground in early autumn, just by rubbing the whole head through my gloved hands. Financially not a cost-effective way of spending one's time, but therapeutic on a fine warm afternoon, and curiously satisfying.
I find they germinate rapidly, being about 4 inches high in a week or 10 days. Then the rye forms a thick green blanket some 8-10 inches high by November, when it pauses, before growing rapidly in March / April. As I tend to do rather large blocks of green manure over the 4 plots I work, and as my old back can't stand too much digging, I tend then to either strim or hover-mow most of it, except for the fringes I leave to grow for seed. Then, as soon as the ground is suitably dry, I rotovate it in. It's only been in the last few years that I've known about the inhibiting effect it has on the growth of other seeds, but I find it's possible to plant seedlings in that ground almost straight away  -  but leave 2-3 weeks before sowing seeds.

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mumofstig

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Re: Green Manure vs no dig
« Reply #18 on: September 23, 2018, 07:37 »
I completely agree with this. We have just had one of the driest summers on record. To now cover your soil with something that prevents the winter rains from soaking in would be just asking for trouble.

Can I just point out that proper, woven weed control fabrics do allow water to soak into the soil.
My brassica bed, once covered with Yuzet woven fabric in autumn stays that way 'til the crop is cleared. It was the only bed that needed very little watering during this summer, as it stopped quite a bit of the moisture from evaporating off, unlike the uncovered beds. 

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snowdrops

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Re: Green Manure vs no dig
« Reply #19 on: September 23, 2018, 12:02 »
I know I could put this on the frugal forum or start a new thread (mods please move if you decide it’s better elsewhere) but since this is about green manures I thought I’d offer my out of date green manures to any one that wants to give them a whirl( I’m now fully no dig & never did get round to sowing any beforehand)
So I’ve got..... sow by dates in brackets
Kings grazing rye- Motto,(09)
Kings buckwheat(open so maybe I tried) (09)
Suffolk Herbs Trefoil (12)
  “.         “ Buckwheat (12)
Thompson & Morgan mix (11)
Message me & I’ll post out this week
A woman's place is in her garden.

See my diary pages here
and add a comment here

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al78

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Re: Green Manure vs no dig
« Reply #20 on: September 23, 2018, 21:30 »
I completely agree with this. We have just had one of the driest summers on record. To now cover your soil with something that prevents the winter rains from soaking in would be just asking for trouble.

Can I just point out that proper, woven weed control fabrics do allow water to soak into the soil.

Or even cardboard, which bike shops regularly throw out.

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Plot 1 Problems

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Re: Green Manure vs no dig
« Reply #21 on: September 23, 2018, 23:28 »
I completely agree with this. We have just had one of the driest summers on record. To now cover your soil with something that prevents the winter rains from soaking in would be just asking for trouble.

Can I just point out that proper, woven weed control fabrics do allow water to soak into the soil.

Or even cardboard, which bike shops regularly throw out.

I'm on board with both of those suggestions over plastic. I just personally like something growing in my beds for as much of the year as possible, it keeps the soil healthy.

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al78

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Re: Green Manure vs no dig
« Reply #22 on: September 26, 2018, 23:57 »
I completely agree with this. We have just had one of the driest summers on record. To now cover your soil with something that prevents the winter rains from soaking in would be just asking for trouble.

Can I just point out that proper, woven weed control fabrics do allow water to soak into the soil.

Or even cardboard, which bike shops regularly throw out.

I'm on board with both of those suggestions over plastic. I just personally like something growing in my beds for as much of the year as possible, it keeps the soil healthy.

Yes, I appreciate the idea of keeping the soil covered with something growing. I have to be a bit careful on my plot. I have found green manures become a slug hotel over winter, although covering with weed suppressant isn't a lot better in that regard. Maybe covering with compost/manure is best, but the problem is getting hold of enough and transporting it.

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snowdrops

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Re: Green Manure vs no dig
« Reply #23 on: September 27, 2018, 07:19 »
I completely agree with this. We have just had one of the driest summers on record. To now cover your soil with something that prevents the winter rains from soaking in would be just asking for trouble.



And there we are back to no dig, covering the ground with a good layer of well rotted mulch is what is recommended, cuts down on slug havens too. I agree that getting enough can be the issue.

Can I just point out that proper, woven weed control fabrics do allow water to soak into the soil.

Or even cardboard, which bike shops regularly throw out.

I'm on board with both of those suggestions over plastic. I just personally like something growing in my beds for as much of the year as possible, it keeps the soil healthy.

Yes, I appreciate the idea of keeping the soil covered with something growing. I have to be a bit careful on my plot. I have found green manures become a slug hotel over winter, although covering with weed suppressant isn't a lot better in that regard. Maybe covering with compost/manure is best, but the problem is getting hold of enough and transporting it. 

But if the once only thick layer is applied it only needs an annual top up.




Edit to clarify quotes
« Last Edit: September 27, 2018, 07:56 by New shoot »

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Gardener and Rabbit

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Re: Green Manure vs no dig
« Reply #24 on: September 27, 2018, 20:50 »
A few years ago I tried a green manure. I was shocked at the price of the seed packets in our local garden centre, so took a walk and collected my own legume mix of dried heads from white clover, black medick and a few vetch pods. I broke them up, and threw them over the bed. It all grew well, and in Spring I dug it in.  I didn't see any noticeable difference from doing it, and the clover attracted pigeons into the garden to graze on it, so I didn't bother doing it again.

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Plot 1 Problems

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Re: Green Manure vs no dig
« Reply #25 on: September 27, 2018, 21:26 »
A few years ago I tried a green manure. I was shocked at the price of the seed packets in our local garden centre, so took a walk and collected my own legume mix of dried heads from white clover, black medick and a few vetch pods. I broke them up, and threw them over the bed. It all grew well, and in Spring I dug it in.  I didn't see any noticeable difference from doing it, and the clover attracted pigeons into the garden to graze on it, so I didn't bother doing it again.

It really depends on your soil type I guess. Mine's so heavy that the winter rains just compact it and leaves me no choice but to give it another dig in the spring. At least with a cover crop in place the compaction is limited, getting me a little nearer to no dig.

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fatcat1955

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Re: Green Manure vs no dig
« Reply #26 on: September 29, 2018, 09:21 »
Mustard used as a green manure is best on a potato bed. It is also a fumigant. When you cut it down in the spring it releases a gas which fumigates the soil, you must dig it in within 10 mins of cutting it down so best to do small areas at a time. It also helps to eradicate wireworm which is why it is good for your potato beds.

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missmoneypenny

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Re: Green Manure vs no dig
« Reply #27 on: October 04, 2018, 16:09 »
That’s really interesting fatcat, as it happens I had mustard on the patch I grew my potatoes and have had the best ever crop of king Edwards this year. Supermarket size they were, unlike the walnut sized tubers I have usually had. I didn’t know about mustard and spuds when I was doing it so maybe just a happy “accident”.

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Mr Dog

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Re: Green Manure vs no dig
« Reply #28 on: October 05, 2018, 11:00 »
Mustard used as a green manure is best on a potato bed. It is also a fumigant. When you cut it down in the spring it releases a gas which fumigates the soil, you must dig it in within 10 mins of cutting it down so best to do small areas at a time. It also helps to eradicate wireworm which is why it is good for your potato beds.

One of my plot neighbours tried this for this year. His spuds where he'd grown the mustard were free of wireworm damage but those elsewhere (as well as all of us around him) suffered.



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