Allotment Gardening Advice Help Chat
Poultry and Pets => The Hen House => Topic started by: andreadon on May 09, 2009, 09:51
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I thought I'd put this in Hen House not Chicken Chat because it will be useful for anyone who needs to do it.....
On Thursday night, I thought that Mary looked like she might have sour crop (from the description on here) - her crop was huge and floppy with water sounds swishing around inside it. I checked her breath, but it didn't smell.
anyway, yesterday at work, I checked how to deal with it.
the idea is to turn the chicken upside down and make her vomit.
Actually, it's surprisingly easy, if extremely gross....
I grabbed Mary in the normal manner and popped her under my arm, facing forward.
Then I tipped her slightly forward, so that her head was facing diagonally downwards.
I got hold of her crop and slowly squished it - not in a pinch, but in a kind of movement like you'd squeeze a soft ball : from the the bottom of the crop.
She pushed her head forward and the stuff started pouring out - this is the gross bit!
It made a natural arc, which meant it wasn't messy.
The consistency of the liquid was like pale Bailey's. (and that colour too) and smelled like proper vomit.
then she decided she didn't like it so she shook her head and it all went everywhere!
so I had to adjust my method: I took the hand that was holding her underneath and put it around her neck (so very gently!).
And I had to firm my hold around her with my arm.
She then kept herself still.
I had to push the vomit out twice more before it stopped - Mary was making gagging faces when the vomit wasn't coming out, like she was encouraging it.
I hope this helps anyone who has sour crop: I was worried about the procedure because I didn't see it described in detail.
:)
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Glad you managed to get her sorted Andreadon :)
All the info including that about making your girl sick, (which I wouldn't advise to anyone who isn't 100% sure that there is a problem) can be found in the poultry info section here :
http://chat.allotment-garden.org/index.php?topic=4345.0
Sarah :)
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thanka Sarah!
That was the link I used: I'm always worried about doing things wrongly, so I like to have step-by-step details on it (but I agree with you that people should be 100% sure first....)
I only did it because she was trying to gag herself.
:)
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On Thursday night, I thought that Mary looked like she might have sour crop (from the description on here) - her crop was huge and floppy with water sounds swishing around inside it. I checked her breath, but it didn't smell.
What made you think she had sour crop ?
Had she been sitting huddled up not eating or drinking or taking much interest in anything ?
Was her crop still enlarged and squishy in the morning before she had anything to eat or drink ?
Did you have to repeatedly empty foul smelling liquid from her crop throughout the day?
The liquid is secreated into the crop from the chickens body in reaction to the fungal infection so it keeps refilling and often needs antifungal treatment. Their breath smells bad with sour crop as it's caused by an infection.
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i hope i never have to do that :ohmy: :ohmy: dont like things being sick :lol: :lol:
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On Thursday night, I thought that Mary looked like she might have sour crop (from the description on here) - her crop was huge and floppy with water sounds swishing around inside it. I checked her breath, but it didn't smell.
What made you think she had sour crop ?
Had she been sitting huddled up not eating or drinking or taking much interest in anything ?
Was her crop still enlarged and squishy in the morning before she had anything to eat or drink ?
Did you have to repeatedly empty foul smelling liquid from her crop throughout the day?
The liquid is secreated into the crop from the chickens body in reaction to the fungal infection so it keeps refilling and often needs antifungal treatment. Their breath smells bad with sour crop as it's caused by an infection.
yes, she had all the symptoms except bad breath.
It was really quite gross.
We're giving her live yoghurt at the moment, but if she's not better tomorrow she's going to the vet.
(weekends are very annoying)
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Is her crop filling up over night with smelly gunk and you have to empty it in the morning ?
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Well, I emptied it last night before she went to bed (which I was worried about doing because she wouldn't have any food to digest) and this morning it was full again and it wa sall just bile-like stuff that came out.
oh, and it smells on the way out.
she was also quite willing to get rid of it....
(I can't decide whether it was filling up again today in the same way - it was certainly sloppy, but not as swollen: I am reluctant to keep doing it when she's eaten cos I don't want her to starve :( )
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If it fills up overnight when it was empty when she went to bed and there is no food or water in the house it would indicate an fungal infection causing the crop to fill with fluid from the body. This needs anti fungal treatment from a vet.
Sour crop is often the result of an impacted crop from possibly eating course grasses. It will not be completely blocked but sufficiently to slow transit of food. This allows food to remain in the crop too long and start to ferment. A fungal infection caused by Candida albicans then sets up, which is the same organism that causes thrush in people. Too much starchy food such as potato peelings, rice, pasta, corn will exacerbate the condition. Live yogurt will help to reduce the candida by lowering the pH. But an antifungal may well be needed.
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Does this description mean that sour crop is not a fungal infection? Or that it is caused by the fungal infection?
I was just about to ask these questions, but I think you may have answered them!
She did not have an impacted crop to start with: she looked perfectly normal until Thursday.
We have only had her (and her buddies) since the 30th April, so we have been strictly keeping them on layers' mash and water.
They have had no treats (much to the chagrin of the originals who have also been denied them so that the newbies didn't accidentally eat them!!)
I was wondering if she could have had this fungal infection since before she came to us and the symptoms appeared because of the stress of the move.
Or could it be an allergic reaction to the new home?
but none of the others have any symptoms, which would suggest that either reason could be the case if she already had it in her system!
I know that in people, you always have to had the virus in order to have thrush - it lies dormant till it has a reason to show itself.
Sorry if this sounds too scientific and technical: I'm trying to be as precise as possible so that it may be of help to someone else in the future.
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Aunt Sally and Andreadon,
Can you tell if a chicken has sour crop from a picture.
I think maybe one of mine has it but unsure.
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Aunt Sally and Andreadon,
Can you tell if a chicken has sour crop from a picture.
I think maybe one of mine has it but unsure.
I wouldn't think you could, Em.
At the moment, I'm waiting to check if it really is sour crop, or if this candida infection is different from sour crop.
fingers crossed, auntie will have all the answers (sorry auntie to put so much pressure on you!!!)
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:lol: :lol: :lol:
You would need a crystal ball to answer those questions Andrea. Too many ifs and buts and maybes.
I have just told you a frequent cause for the candida overgrowing, yes it is always present in the chook. Stress can activate conditions as can many other things. If she doesn't improve withing a day or two then I'd take her to the vet for some meds.
Will you description be helpful to others ? - possibly, but unlikely as everyones individual problems and conditions are always different ;)
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Andrea - Sour crop = Candida albicans infection of the crop !
Hawkins, I don't think anyone could diagnose sour crop from a photo, sorry.
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No problems Aunty,
Thanks Guys
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Hope you get her sorted out Hawkins. Live yogurt is always good for chooks digestion.
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thank you auntie!
even if it doesn't help anyone else, it helps me!
So, my chicken has thrush: whoda thunk it?
:lol:
(i'm sorry, I know it's not a laughing matter).
I will arrange a vet visit asap and keep feeding her the live yoghurt.
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The topic as a whole is quite useful Andrea.
Hope you get her sorted out :)
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A chicken's breath should smell kind of musty, like a damp cellar or basement. If they smell like they have eaten something long dead then it is probably sour crop.
The layer pellets are ground grains and dissolve, kinda, when water is added to the crop making a mash. Add a hen's 100 deg F body heat to the mix plus some digestive fluids and after a few hours there will be a smelly mess in that crop. That is perfectly normal.
Normally by the end of the day a crop will be fairly good sized and if it is working correctly in the morning be empty. When I say morning though it is usually around 4am that our birds stir and start eating again.
And a word of caution about turning a bird on it's back, Especially Cornish (Indian Games) and heavy meat birds. The internal organs can actually collapse the lungs on some birds as they are now on top of the lungs when a bird is inverted.
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brilliant psot nnb !
If you have no objections I'd like to add that as a quote to our digestive proplems article :D
http://chat.allotment-garden.org/index.php?topic=4345.msg48355#msg48355
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Thanks, I would have no objections at all. I just wish this much info was available so quickly when we started raising chickens.
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I agree nnb - this site is the most amazing thing! it manages to keep you calm when you're panicking about the stupid birds' health and offers so much advice that you don't end up going mad with worry.
An update, though - we took Mary to the vet this morning and he gace her cure-all baytril. I think she's a bit better anyway, because her crop wasn't as sloshy this morning. He said to keep giving her live yoghurt (it's always nice to know you've done something right!!).and some mashed up baby food (to make her feel better i think)
But Rita's decided to be a mopey moo - she started yesterday so I popped her in the cat basket with Mary - you may all remember that Rita's a feisty little madam, so when she's mopey it's worrying! Anyway, she'd laid a shell-less egg today and when I went to fetch her out she was right underneath the house, all squashed up into herself.
Took her into the vet, and he gave her an injection (said it could be a gut bug) and took her temperature :ohmy: you know where. Anyway, out popped this lump of grissle (which the vet said was the rest of the egg) and also a prolapse! silly girl. Vet wasn't too worried, though, said it was the strain; and popped it back in. (the prolapse, not the grissle..... ::) )
She's still not right, but I think that's the stress of it all.
They really are worse than children, aren't they!!
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I'd like some help please & am glad to have found this topic.
My chicken has been poorly for a while. I initially thought zozo was just under the weather & that she would eventually be fine, but after a few days when she was still poorly I thought that perhaps she had a vitamin deficiency; as I've experienced it b4 with my little cockerel (he improved on vit D). Again a few days passed & I put aside the vitamin theory & thought of worms, but a vet checked the poo & confirmed that it's not worms. The vet then went on to say it's her crop & that she has 2 or 3 bits bundled together & that zozo needed surgery. The vet somehow assumed that zozo might have eaten dry grass or something tough, but we don't allow our chickens to do so. I believe the bits the vet had me feel in her crop were bits of food I had fed her just b4 leaving home. I decided to wait & took the medicine the vet gave me. I am mashing up her food now & feeding her daily, I give her the med daily & water. I am too afraid to not feed her. But at the same time when I do feed her she seems to go into some sort of coma at least once a day, her behaviour makes me assume that she is dying...but she perks up after some rest. I feel her crop daily & massage it when I can & the lumps or impaction the vet referred to are not there. In fact her crop feels soft. Zozo hasn't lost weight throughout all this but she is in a still position, barely able to stand most of the time & she appears more fragile day by day. She hasn't been eating or drinking on her own throughout her illness. And reading all this leads me to think that what she has is sour crop. I did contemplate inducing vomitting but I'm worried. Could anyone help to confirm my diagnosis & advise me on what I should do? I can not afford the vet fee, but I do believe that she was wrong! Thank you.
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How old is Zozo?
Is she laying?
Is she bottom of the pecking order?
Does she free range?
And when you say you mash her food - is that pellets?
Not sure I'd be convinced by the vet's diagnosis either tbh (personally I wouldn't consider surgery - but that's your call of course)
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zozo is about 2. She has never been the best layer so she hasn't been laying 4 a while now. She is not a heavy eater at all even when she's laying & in good health we are left disappointed by how little she eats. She can be a bit cowardly, & 1 or 2 others sometimes see her as a target 4 bullying so at the moment I have isolated her, at least to get the cockerels of her back. We give them pellets, mash..a variety of seeds and I'll make them mixed food with rice, lettuce, cucumbers, corn with absolutely nothing too tough or hard for them to swallow.
At the moment I'm putting into my kitchen mixer rice, corn, egg, wholemeal bread (small amounts of each) and a variety of seeds. This way I find it easier to feed her & hopefully easy for her to digest. I have stopped giving her grapes to avoid provoking any fermenting but if I'm eating banana I will give her some small pieces (again 4 easy digestion). And thats pretty much all I feed her. She is well feathered, nothing falling off yet!
They go into the garden & we block them from the grass, but they do have dust baths.