Allotment Gardening Advice Help Chat
Growing => Grow Your Own => Topic started by: Smudgeboy on February 07, 2007, 22:03
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Hi all
First time poster and recently fulfilled a long-held ambition of having my own garden!
I have an interest in gardening from watching me ol' Dad over the years, but he was never much of a veg grower, which is the bit that fascinates me. I have a load of questions and I'm reading up first but haven't found an answer to the following question:
If I want to create a couple of small (10ft x 6ft) raised beds in an area that is currently wild grass, can I do it without digging up the grass - ie, by starting with heavy duty groundsheet of some type and dropping soil in on the top?
Ta
Smudge
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depending on your soil, I would not do raised bed myself but if your soil is heavy (clay) it might be worth while. it always seem like loads of unnecessary work to me.
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erm, I suppose that could work, depending on the depth of the bed :?
would it be so bad to dig it over? Weeding aint that bad.
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if the grass is couch twitch etc it may well come thro8gh and love the new soil . poison it first is my advice .roundup should sort it , or use a sheet of something , but it will need to be waterproof and may well then let weeds come up through it , others may have some more tips ,, and welcome to the gang smudge :)
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First, I'd make the beds 4' wide so you can access easily without stepping on the bed.
I wouldn't go for a membrane as the idea of a deep bed is to have deep soil and the membrane limits that. If you can't get the couch roots out, then use glyphosate weedkiller, let them die off and then dig over.
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I am big on burning all these funny named weeds :D bit of petrol and in with heavy plant(machinery)
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First, I'd make the beds 4' wide so you can access easily without stepping on the bed.
I have very long arms :D
That's some quick replies - cleared up a misconception or two nicely and all! Many thanks all.
I think I'm gonna like it here.
More questions will inevitably follow - especially around what to do about my shady, north-facing garden.
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You could try this:
(Copied from my post on another forum.... around Dec.)
As recommended to me in an earlier thread... and in keeping with my desire to grow veg for the family next year.
The project begins...
.....this is the first little corner to be trialled with the cardboard and compost technique!
(http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i4/salpublicphotos/Garden/DSCF3313.jpg)
Son put to work
(http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i4/salpublicphotos/Garden/DSCF3320.jpg)
(http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i4/salpublicphotos/Garden/DSCF3322.jpg)
(http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i4/salpublicphotos/Garden/DSCF3325.jpg)
(http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i4/salpublicphotos/Garden/DSCF3326.jpg)
Finished....
(http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i4/salpublicphotos/Garden/DSCF3328.jpg)
Just debating covering it with black material... I have a roll, but it's only a metre wide - may investigate wider stuff.
Apparently it's best to grow spuds in this first year. I'll probably have to do something to stop the grass creeping in from the side..... (but OH will be in charge of that project.)
What do you think! :)
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Impressive.
I have heard that the cardboard can eventually make the soil a bit acid. I said eventually but something to keep in mind.
Looks like a great place you've got there Salkeela.
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Later update:
Boards were added round the first bed before Christmas.
And today OH took a notion to make a second bed (narrower this time -we decided the first was probably wider than optimum).
Horse manure on this one straight out of the stable (although the stable hasn't be occupied for some time so there was some maturing in situ!)
(http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i4/salpublicphotos/Garden/DSCF3393.jpg)
(http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i4/salpublicphotos/Garden/DSCF3392.jpg)
In fact since then I have added a bit more stuff to the top..... more horse manure - this time mature stuff.
I'm lucky though we do own a couple of the original suppliers of the manure!
I should say this is all a little experimental! Sorry for hijacking your thread Smudge!
Sally
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Hell what a task :shock:
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Thanks Jake. The place belonged to my gran before we moved here. And apart from being a bit windy (we are fairly exposed) it's a great spot.
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Hell what a task :shock:
Hmmmm at the outset I thought it would be less work than digging.... now I'm not so sure!
:lol:
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I expect you need to think of it as an investment - harder work this year for less work over the next ten. Looks a lovely place.
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Raised beds and north facing gardens, sounds like my house :lol:
Denise
First, I'd make the beds 4' wide so you can access easily without stepping on the bed.
I have very long arms :D
That's some quick replies - cleared up a misconception or two nicely and all! Many thanks all.
I think I'm gonna like it here.
More questions will inevitably follow - especially around what to do about my shady, north-facing garden.
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I've just re-read The No Work Garden by Bob Flowerdew. He doesn't advise using sides to your beds because they harbour slugs etc. He just runs trenches around. I suppose it depends a bit on your soil. I must admit I haven't bothered - but mine are just fixed beds, not very raised.
It's worth getting the book out of the library though, some good advice, even though the plait is a bit naff in a grown man.
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Bob (and his plait) is my inspiration for gardening organically in perfect harmony with nature. My beds too are fixed rather than raised, as a result I'm effortlessly able to keep my two 5 rod plots under immaculate control...well some of the time anyway (see my personal picture gallery thingy). I just used any old bits of wood to edge them, mainly so I can tell what is path and what is bed when the blackbirds have been playing with my topsoil.
Save for the thorough initial clearing and digging, the fixed beds certainly weren't hard work to create, requiring just a tape measure to measure how wide you want them to be and some means of marking them out so you can still remember where they are next time you visit the plot (thus spaketh a girlie).
Benefits of being 4ft wide - easy to reach middle of bed, easy to construct cloches and find material of suitable width to cover them without resorting to sowing bits together to cover a wider bed.
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Noshed - I'll not have a word said against the blessed Flowerdew. Besides, his plait will provide much joy to his young children :)
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Thanks again all - fascinating stuff, esp Salkeela's cardboard beds! :D
My problem is actually space and whether I will be able to use it - my house has a large south-facing front garden (I'll come back to that later!) and a pretty small north-facing back garden.
However, behind the back garden is a farmer's field, which he cultivates (corn, I believe - not long moved in). There is a large ditch/dyke affair surrounding the field and a 10ft strip of grass between my garden wall and the ditch.
I established from the previous owner that they never cultivate on "my side" of the ditch and from my OS map that it's not a footpath or anything - and it's this area I hope to turn into a veg patch. OF COURSE, it starts with getting permission from the farmer, so it might all be a moot point.
If he does agree, it still raises the question of whether he will allow me to actually dig up the area, or simpy allow me to do some sort of container growing.
Therefore, all questions are around what the farmner says.
If he says "do what you like", I'm laughing.
If he says "container only" I need to work out how to container-ise everything (I had thought about a few of those large galvanised steel bathtubs, but I'm sure I've heard that galvanised steel and food don't mix?)
If he says "get orff moi laaand" then I have to do a total re-think and decide whether I want to turn my front garden into the veg garden - not so pretty and how much of my lovely veggies will get pinched !!
Decisions, decisions - s'pose I should start with farmer Giles!
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Thanks again all - fascinating stuff, esp Salkeela's cardboard beds! :D
:lol: I've yet to see if they work. Big experiment! :)
If he says "container only"
Don't suggest containers! Don't even mention them; if he's a farmer he'll think only of planting in the ground. He may not even think he owns that strip. Perhaps it belongs to someone else? Probably good to ask him anyway.
Oh and offer him some produce as an incentive - always works well in my experience.
Good luck.
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Thanks sal - I do intend to just ask an open question - explain my situation and just leave it hanging . . . more than willing to offer him a home-cooked dish or two, cooking being another passion.
Noticed today that other recent newbies have taken more trouble to intriduce themselves than I did - apologies if I trod all over the 'good form guide'!
I'm Dave, I moved in to my first ever house in November after years of living in flats. It's in Westerham in Kent and I'm over the moon about it - especially the garden - although I've only been there a couple of months and already I'm finding my plans are outstripping my space etc - probably always the way.
I want to start with a few herbs and veggies as described and then, if I find I'm hooked (highly likely, I'm already hooked on the planning) there are allotments about half a mile away, which, on first inspection, look like they have quite a few unused plots.
I'd love to go organic - might have to start with the basics first and worry about that at a later date.
Another hobby is cooking - I'm no Gordon Ramsay (thank God) but I can't wait to cook with things I've yanked from the soil with my own bare hands.
I also have a developing interest in harvesting wild foods from field and hedgerow. Westerham is a nice village surrounded by fields and countryside (well, the South-East's approximation of countryside - hedgerow-land) and on recent expolarotry walks I've seem multitudes of fungi and berries etc - just need to get a good book on how to recognise wild foods (wild garlic etc) and stuff.
Watch out Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall - you've unleashed a monster! :D
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I started the "proper" way and double dug - no joke on heavy clay! Subsequent ones I didn't bother and there wasn't a lot of difference after a year or two. However couch grass, being in league with the devil, will come up through ANYTHING and is probably best dealt with by chemical warfare if your principles allow - I was once told the roots had been found 20ft down when a septic tank was being installed.
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Welcome Smudgeboy. I'm strictly organic, until it comes to couchgrass and bindweed, then the Roundup comes out for them alone. If your front yard is your only hope for a while, use The Ornamental Kitchen Garden by Geoff Hamilton technique of blending the veg in with the flowers. Not so noticeable thus not so stealable. You don't get the huge yields of an allotment, but something is always better than nothing until you can deal with the farmer.
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We were about to embark on two raised beds but now I'm worried about the slug issue....
Our soil is v heavy clay and we have seen this past week that it can become waterlogged for several days at a time. I'm worried that this will cause problems and thought that raised beds filled with a sandier soil might be a good thing..
I'm not sure now.. what do you think?
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I'm pretty sure raised beds are your answer Yummy.
I was talking with Larry on our site where we have heavy clay and he was saying that all the compost / manure / leafmould he has added and he still has heavy soil.
My deep beds on plot 29 are far easier to look after.
Having said that, I don't think they're the answer for everything even on clay soils. I wouldn't grow sweetcorn, squashes, pumpkins on deep beds. Comfrey establishes well on clay so a deep bed for the comfrey would be a total waste of effort, I think. The idea is that the deep roots of comfrey drag nutrients up from the deep anyway.
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Ah ok thanks.
I was going to put sweetcorn and beans together I think so I will leave those in regular beds. (yippee that is less wood needed now :D )
I'm going to get two beds ready very soon for leeks, parsnips and erm I can't remember now. I'm debating whether to grow spuds, onions and carrots when they are so cheap elsewhere. I know it would be nice to have all veg fresh from the plot but I'm worried that as a newbie I may not be able to keep up with too many different types at once. Therefore I thought I would concentrate on growing the things that I like the most but also cost the most from the shops e.g. soft fruit, salad leaves etc...