Allotment Gardening Advice Help Chat
Poultry and Pets => The Hen House => Topic started by: Beekissed on January 25, 2015, 07:02
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Anyone using a cultivated deep litter in their coop and runs? I've been using it for some years now but have finally found a combination of materials and a method I really like and it's like a dream to have a coop with no smells, no cleaning out, no flies and that provides the birds with something to do...as well as provide compost for my garden.
I use mostly leaves in the winter months but will occasionally mix in large pine shavings to bulk it up if necessary. This winter I've done all leaves, though some small amounts of hay and straw have found their way into the mix. All spring and summer I deposit garden, flower and herb trimmings in the coop as well. Small twigs, hair and fur, feathers, pine needles and even bones find their way into the coop to mix into the litter.
Good, adjustable ventilation is key and can help keep the chickens warm and dry when it's snowy and damp outside. Another key component is variable particle size and type, such as mixing slow composting materials in with things that break down more quickly and also larger particles that provide air space between finer materials. Large flake shavings, leaves, twigs, pine needles, straw, hay, pine cones, bark, etc. seems to be a great combination, but more leaves than the other materials in the mix, as they break down beautifully.
I just keep the litter lightly flipped under the roosts every other day and then let the chickens do the rest of the rearranging. Lately I've been dumping our scraps in the coop and letting them incorporate what they don't eat right into the litter.
Here's pics of the litter as it changes throughout the seasons and as new materials are added...a lot more are added in the winter months than in the summer...summer usually gets mostly green materials, whereas winter mostly leaves and woodier things that absorb well.
(http://cdn.backyardchickens.com/b/bd/900x900px-LL-bd39a073_100_0702.jpeg)
(http://cdn.backyardchickens.com/f/f2/900x900px-LL-f2cbb06d_100_1152.jpeg)
(http://cdn.backyardchickens.com/5/52/900x900px-LL-52c02c1b_Leavesinthecoop.jpeg)
(http://cdn.backyardchickens.com/1/14/900x900px-LL-1432bff2_Summerbeddingmix.jpeg)
(http://cdn.backyardchickens.com/6/6f/900x900px-LL-6f55e251_100_2376.jpeg)
(http://cdn.backyardchickens.com/e/e0/900x900px-LL-e081c141_100_2458.jpeg)
(http://cdn.backyardchickens.com/5/5f/900x900px-LL-5f7b3562_100_2459.jpeg)
Added benefit of this method of coop maintenance is the healthy, thriving microbial life that can be established and can prevent other, more harmful bacteria and molds taking hold in the coop and run environment. It gives the chickens a more natural habitat in which to live and can help the flock owner work smarter, not harder. So, so much easier to just add to and maintain, rather than shoveling or raking out all the time and trying to deal with bad smells and flies all summer long.
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So after a season or two, do you move the coop and plant in the composted space? Or do you remove the compost floor and relocate it to another area of your garden? Seems like once it breaks down it would make a nice soil amendment!🐓
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I just leave it there and let it keep going and going. Every now and again I'll rake the litter back and scoop some of the loamy, black soil underneath for side dressing or for planting seedlings.
It has value where it is, as it attracts worms and bugs that the chickens like to eat in the winter months when they can't get out and forage for them as well. It also leaches down to my peach trees below the coop...they produced for the first time ever the last few seasons, since locating the coop above them on the slope. They are about 18 yrs old but had never produced more than a few knotty fruits that the squirrels ate before they ripened, but a year after doing deep litter in that coop they had their first real crop that was so heavy we were propping branches up...still had one branch break under the weight, though.
Many people are now doing deep litter in this manner in their runs and no longer have those hard packed moonscapes that turn slimy and stinky in the summer months. Now they are reporting runs that absorb moisture, have no smells or flies and that provide their hens cleaner, healthier footing in rainy seasons.
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This looks like a good idea and way of managing things. A word of warning to anyone who thinks to add grass cuttings - DON'T! They break down very quickly and are likely to be eaten by chooks causing ,possibly, massive stomach/digestive problems which could lead to death. :(
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Yes, those can be a real problem to confined stock as they will gobble any fresh greenery you deposit there and not in the lengths they normally would, so they can get crop impaction. Thank you for mentioning that! :) I tend to forget about those who keep chickens confined as my flock free ranges in all seasons and get to choose their own greenery at will.
A better option for providing greens for them in confinement is grow frames with pick and come again type growth of grasses, lettuces, etc. or a bale of fresh hay they can pluck at and remove small bits from that are more appropriately sized for digestion.
An easy way to incorporate lawn clippings into the compost of deep litter is to rake aside one part of the coop or run's bedding and place the clippings, then cover them well with litter. They can then break down easily under the litter and be incorporated into the bedding without the chickens having large access to them.
Providing grow frames for the birds can satisfy this part of their diet and make them less likely to want to eat lawn clippings. These are pretty easily done and can provide a better habitat for confined chickens wherein they get a better variety of diet and can satisfy the urge to forage, but without denuding the grass cover.
(http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/02/01/cb/0201cb185241bc6241aaca2d3ac33849.jpg)
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Grass frames brilliant idea. All those with space issues, and I know there are many of you, should note this. Excellent.
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These can even be done vertically with the use of pallets if folks have even less space. I've seen some really cute vertical greens gardens for chooks with the use of pallets. A person would have to cover the soil with some kind of net to keep the chickens from pulling the whole plant from the soil but with grasses this is easy to do.
(http://www.designsponge.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/pallet_garden_intro.jpg)
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These grass frames seem a cracking idea. Other years I've put turf down then covered it in chicken wire held down with tent pegs. But the hens still manage to pull up the roots over time. This is such an obvious thing to do. ::)
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Would the birds feet be affected by walking on the wire?
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I do leaf mulch to
Admittedly I do clear it out and replenish with fresh leaves but only because it makes a beautiful compost for my veggies ;)
Grass Pens agreed a brilliant idea - will definitely give that one a go ;)
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Would the birds feet be affected by walking on the wire?
If that's all they had to walk on all the time, I'd say that might be a problem but since the frames are just part of where they walk and live, I'm doubting it causes a problem. I know several people who have them and they have not reported any issues from it, but they do have large runs where the chickens don't have to walk on the wire unless they want to.
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Battery hens only have wire to walk on :mad:
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Yep...and that's sad. Even when they don't, they often don't even know the feel of real earth and have never seen grass. I have two in my flock right now that had been raised in a cement block building, small windows that were so dirty that no light was let in. They had no roosts, no dusting areas, no real chicken life....just large flocks of birds in cramped conditions~called "cage free"...what a joke! The cage was just larger and didn't have wire floors, but cement ones. When I brought them home they were scared to go out of the pen and didn't know how to roost, then when integrated with the flock, they were scared to come out of the coop. It was many days before they were comfortable out on free range. They are slowly adapting to flock life out on the green Earth but they look great compared to when they arrived and they seem to be enjoying their new life.
Now they know true cage freedom, living a life out on the grass like a chicken should, coming and going when they please. They eat what they want, roost as is their instinct, lay in nests that have actual nest material in them, and they now have a true flock social system~a rooster as flock leader and birds of different ages and social status within the flock, roosting of different levels so they can have a choice and acres of land where they can just BE.
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cage free over here is known as barn raised - people have this vision in their heads of chickens being allowed to roam in and out of a barn with bales of straw to hop on and off etc. I have been inside a barn with these hens and it is nothing like that sadly :(
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Same here. They most often don't even have adequate nesting and usually no roosting at all, very little light except artificial lighting and no good, healthy footing under them. Usually just powdered, old and new feces. Usually pretty crowded, so there is evidence of much feather picking.
And people pay extra for those eggs..... :wub:
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I spent time sitting in the coop today, watching the chickens while they ate. I tossed some corn into the deep litter to give them some fun in looking for it and that also gets the litter moved around a little at the surface.
The litter was nice and dry on the surface and slightly moist in the layers underneath, just as it should be. I noted that the kitchen scraps I had been throwing in the litter are nowhere to be seen now, even the onions and potato peelings that the chickens won't eat.
Manure disappears just as rapidly, as I can turn it under in the area under the roosts on one day and a couple of days later do it again and find no evidence of the manure turned under just two days previously. There is no smell in this coop and I can pick up the litter right under the roosts and place it up to my face, take a deep whiff and only smell composted leaf material. Smells like the forest.
I'm very happy with the way the DL is working this winter and it seems to have just the right amount of moisture retention while staying dry at the surface, where the chickens walk. The level of ventilation in the coop seems to be working well also and has been easy to adjust after rainy spells in order to stabilize the moisture in the DL.
No frostbite on combs or wattles, though the temps are -6C to -18C here and the coop has large open areas at the front of the coop. The DL seems to keep it warmer there and the ventilation keeps moisture from collecting at roost levels at night, so the chickens are staying warm and well.
Edited to add: Just noticed the controversy on the forum about scraps and the laws about them in the EU, so wanted folks to note I'm from the US and we have no such laws in place. I hope we never do, as kitchen scraps for chickens is as old as time here for backyard flocks and is a supplement to their diet, especially in the winter months.
Sorry if this post rouses any ire about the scraps but we are free to do that here, so not promoting anything illegal at all. Different strokes for different folks, as they say. ;)
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I had already noted that you live over the pond so wasn't worried about your post Beekissed, our rules are very strict when it comes to feeding livestock even more so since the arrival of BSE through cows being fed the wrong food, hopefully we are now free from BSE over here. Having said that I do see that there has been a case in Alberta Canada of BSE yesterday - the first case since 2011.
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Good! Didn't want to stir up that bee's nest again inadvertently. :nowink: After reading here awhile I realized there are many differences in the laws you have in the EU than those we have here, like the scraps and burning wood, etc. that I would have to clarify as being from the states. I'm sure there will be other such things, so I just need to pay attention and/or hope that folks notice I'm from across the water.
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Do you have much problem with mites in all that litter. I have started doing the deep litter thing and have already emptied 8 big bags of forest wood chip in. I've also left any half eaten spring cabbage in there, putting it under the chips. They may be needing stilts at the end lol
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Deep Litter is a wonderful way of keeping chickens, as has been said chucking down mixed corn will allow the chickens to do the turning over for you and also allowing plenty of ventilation. Having only small ventilation gaps and holes creates draughts unlike keeping areas open.
I have some hens who live in the trees all year round, in winter they move into the laurels as these retain their foliage but they are still quite exposed and these girls are the healthiest of all my flock.
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Deep Litter is a wonderful way of keeping chickens, as has been said chucking down mixed corn will allow the chickens to do the turning over for you and also allowing plenty of ventilation. Having only small ventilation gaps and holes creates draughts unlike keeping areas open.
I have some hens who live in the trees all year round, in winter they move into the laurels as these retain their foliage but they are still quite exposed and these girls are the healthiest of all my flock.
I try to tell people that all the time but they insist on closing up the coops each winter, insulating new coop builds and even heating the coops in cold weather. They don't seem to understand the differences between chickens and humans and they project how they feel outside onto the birds. I too have had birds that spent the winter in the pines and not a bit of frost bite.
My coop has a front door that is open at the top half and small windows on either side of that open as well all winter long, no matter the temps. Sometimes if the wind is really whistling into the coop due to changing winds, I'll drape a feed sack over that open door but I remove it after the winds shift. Usually the winds don't blow from that direction, so usually you can't even feel cold air through that open half, even in single digit weather.
I also have purposeful cracks throughout the structure that lets in fresh air at all levels and gaps at the roof that let out the stale air. The airflow in that coop is fresh but not breezy and I've not had a speck of frostbite in this blue cold weather, nor did I last year when it was even colder. All my birds are single, large comb breeds.
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Do you have much problem with mites in all that litter. I have started doing the deep litter thing and have already emptied 8 big bags of forest wood chip in. I've also left any half eaten spring cabbage in there, putting it under the chips. They may be needing stilts at the end lol
I have not, and I've not had reports from other using the same, with mite issues. A well cultured and varied litter tends to attract beneficial bugs known to prey on mite larvae, so not sure if that is what is going on in my own litter but I don't seem to have a problem with them.
Usually we add litter as needed and don't start it out as a deep bedding, so it composts down a good bit before we add more. In the fall I add more at once simply because the leaves compact rather quickly and I can rake in a huge pile one day and they are gone the next week, it seems.
It helps too if you add more than one type of litter material so it can have gaps that allow air into the mix and it breaks down at different rates. A mix of the bark, leaves, pine needles and even a dab of straw would provide variety to your mix and may help it break down quicker so your birds don't have to walk on stilts! :lol:
Let me know how your deep bark mix works for you, as it may work just fine over time...I've never used that material to any great degree other than whatever bark is raked into the coop with the leaves in the fall.
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my coops are never closed up at night nor are the ventilation holes (which are set to fully open all year round). Some people have to though because of foxes.
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How do you prevent against fox attacks Joyfull? I would like to have chickens again when we move. I have found this thread very interesting.
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I have not seen a fox anywhere near us, sadly I did have a few mink attacks but the farmers took care of the mink (think they do the same with the foxes too as most of them have chickens). None of mine have clipped wings so the bantams can at least fly up into the trees out of danger.
If you are in a known fox area then electric fencing is the only way to go I'm afraid.
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I agree. If you don't have a good dog outdoors all the time to watch over them, electric poultry netting is a great thing for many four footed preds. I have a good dog, so I don't have to worry about foxes and such.
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my 3 dogs are outdoors for most of the day but they do sleep inside the house.
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Another benefit of composting deep litter in the coop is the warmth that is generated. It's not the heat you'll feel in a compost pile in the summer time, but there is definitely more warmth generated even if the coop floor is soil, which means it's directly on the cold, cold earth.
I moved my old mercury thermometer to the coop this week and placed it in the roosting area to measure the ambient temps at the roost height in the coop. This morning outside temps were 9 and the windchill was 3, but inside that coop~no lights or heaters on, mind you~was 20 degrees.
I only have 12 standard birds in a 10x12 coop and that coop is a hoop coop, with many intentional open areas to allow for good ventilation(half of the front door is left open,small windows on either side of the door are open, the pop door is always open, many gaps and cracks as well), so not a snug wooden coop that is all closed up.
The deep composting litter generates some warmth and some humidity, but good ventilation will allow your birds to enjoy the updraft of the warm air while they roost and allow the humidity to rise upward as well, going out the roof vents. This leaves the coop warm and dry, with healthy footing.
I felt of and smelled the litter under the roost area and could detect no smell of feces...just the smell of soil. The litter was cool to the touch but not frozen, a little moist but not damp.
I feed wet feeds and can't feed them in the trough in this super cold weather, so have been placing it directly on the litter...it gets cleaned up more completely there and nothing is left behind to freeze. What gets lost into the bedding during feeding time they find later as they work and scratch around in the litter all day. I check the next day for even small particles of grain and can't find any...in the absence of getting to go outdoors and forage for food, this hunting for their feed is satisfying their urge to hunt.
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Here's an amateur attempt to explain my deep litter. Please ignore all the stuttering around...I'm out of practice in speaking to the public: lOdM22IgcRQ
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Only just had time to watch the video Beekissed.
I do a smaller scale thing in my big run with bark, leaves and garden clippings on top of the soil. I hose it down periodically and remove and replace the bark chip when the chickens have broken it down to dust. The chickens love this as I dig deep and they find worms and all sorts of goodies. The spent litter makes great mulch :)
Loved watching your hens and listening to them chatting to you, as you were speaking to the camera :D
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This year has been a great year for my DL in the coop, with many wheelbarrow loads of silty, fine composted material taken from the coop and placed on the garden~which is one of the great benefits of this method. It composts in place, instead of having to move it twice. Now that I've got it working well, it's really producing the compost! This is the first year I've ever got to remove that much material and still have so much DL still in the coop.
I've been placing all my garden and canning scraps in the area next to the roosting site, where they are either eaten or scratched under the DL, there to be eaten by worms or turned into compost. I've also placed many weeds and flower stems from cleaning out the annual beds in that area, where it's now composting down with a layer of leaves on top of it.
This time of year is when I really get to put the good stuff in the coop...loads and loads of leaves. Then, all winter long, I'll be putting even more leaves on, as the need for dry bedding comes along. Mixed in with that are pine needles and cones, twigs, small bits of grass, hay, bark, wood chips and even a little straw. No pine shavings, though. I haven't used those for a couple of years now, as I found them too slow to decompose...and they cost money.
This coop smells fresh~not one smell of chicken poop or flies can be found~and it's producing compost at a wonderful rate. By next spring I'll have plenty for side dressing plants and I don't have to worry about it being too hot to use as it will be fully composted and ready for use.
Anyone else working on a DL in the coop and run to use on the garden?
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Not to the extent you do Beekissed, but I did empty out the big run in the last week and use the old litter to top dress a large flower bed in my garden. This is a large run based around a garden pergola, with Foghorn and his 6 girls in residence.
It starts with bagged bark chips. These are sold as a soil dressing to suppress weeds over here, but they are not expensive and I got a good deal at the garden centre. I will add leaves, grass mowings and various bits of green waste to it. The chickens work away at it and over summer, I hose it down regularly to keep it clean. It comes back out about 6 months later as dark, crumbly soil with the odd small piece of bark in it. The flower bed will probably grow a few wheat plants from missed seeds, but I pull these up and chuck them back in the run as the chickens love wheat grass.
Alphie's set up for him and his 2 girls is an eglu coop and run, which is on what is left of the lawn. He gets moved around onto fresh grass regularly, but deep litter is not practical for him.
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It sounds like lovely compost! I love that dark, crumbly nature of it and the clean, rich smell of earth. Do your flowers seem to show the difference? Mine show more vivid coloring and deeper green leaves from this rich stuff.
I had a dandelion trying to reach into the composting area of the coop from the outside...that thing was 2 ft wide and the main stem grew to 3 ft. tall when left alone. Took both hands and all my weight to pull that thing out of the soil...the taproot was 8 in. long! :lol:
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It is great compost and the flowers do respond to it :)
I noticed yesterday I have some prize nettles growing at the side of coop amongst the comfrey. I will have to wade down there and root them out. Shame they are a weed, as they are the lushest and most beautiful specimens I have ever seen :lol:
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A wonderful weed to have!!!! http://www.herballegacy.com/Vance_Medicinal.html (http://www.herballegacy.com/Vance_Medicinal.html)
I'd dry those and use them now and again in the chicken's food...good for them! You might even enjoy their benefits yourself. :)
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I could dry them for chicken feed. They will have to go from where they are as they will stop me getting to the comfrey without getting stung, but there are plenty more down at my allotment site.
People here say they are a sign of fertile soil and they must be, because the best ones there are all growing down by the communal green waste dump :lol:
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They are also said to make for wonderful compost and a nutritional tea for plants...very nutrient dense plant, from what I've gathered on the topic.
Dumped a huge quantity of leaves in the coop today, the season's first big offering of leaves, though I had placed small bits earlier on. I have plenty of leaves stored for winter bedding now and then some. Have been collecting leaves from people in town and have collected 181 large bags of leaves, pine needles, grass clippings, etc. thus far. Most will go on the garden, but some was stored for bedding and such.
Deep litter in the coop, deep litter on the garden....it all just makes perfect sense and makes both areas pleasant to work in.
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I'd really like some advice on this. I have two runs, one that I put my girls in during the day, we only built it this summer it consists of 6 foot high wire mesh panels resting on the garden soil, with an anti dig skirt of wire mesh around the outside. I live in London where urban daytime foxes are very common and we built it as a fox proof daytime run for when we are not in the garden. The other run encloses the coop and has a paving stone floor which we installed after we had a big problem with rats tunneling in. The problems I have are that the flagstone floor is boring and the girls can't scratch about, they have a big dust box & we put bark in there as well. The floor ends up very yukky and smelly. The daytime soil based run has been great all summer but now the weather has turned the floor has turned into a mud bath, I put a huge pile of leaves in there last week thinking that they'd keep the girls out of the mud & that they'd compost down. Yesterday I spent the afternoon raking out a stinking sour mass of horrible leaves. The run still smells revolting even though I've taken the leaves out I don't want to put the girls in there for fear of disease. Should I have put a mixture of stuff on the floor? is bark from the garden centre OK to use? one of the chicken product sites advises against it saying that it harbours mould spores and that hard wood chippings should be used instead. Could I use the deep litter approach you describe on the paving stones in the other run?
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I don't have a run with a paved floor, but we have had forum members saying they use bark chips over them.
As regards your soil run, you need a mix of materials with some chunkier things that allow for drainage. Leaves alone will compact down to a smelly mess. I have used bark chips as a base for my deep litter for years and have never had a problem. I do avoid very wet heavy bags from the garden centre. If they do seem damp, I set them on end under cover to dry out before use.
My run is also roofed with cross beams and clear corrugated plastic, which really helps over winter :)
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If folk use bark chips successfully that is good, however a specialist chicken vet advised to never use bark as it harbours aspergilous (sp) spores :(
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Bark used alone in an uncovered run does get wet and can get mould growing in it. Both Beekissed and I have roofed runs with a mix of materials, which is a bit different :)
Get friendly with your local garden centre and they will open a new pallet and give you the dry bags from that. The bark comes out of the bag smelling good and with no trace of mould. You don't have to use bark. If you read back on this thread, there are all sorts of things suggested, but think compost heap. You need fibrous items to add air to the mix.
As I have said, I have never had problems, but like all things, you need to do your homework and make sure you understand the basic principles. My oldest bantam hen is 10 and admittedly she is most definitely in the twilight of her years, but she still enjoys a good scratch round in the litter. Just at a far more gentle pace these days :)
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I don't actually have a roofed run...as I have no run at all, but use the DL in my coop. ;) And I allow rain and melting snow into the coop to get good moisture into the leaves and material to be found there...can't compost without the moisture.
As for the spores, they are present in nature and in any composting mass of materials. They cannot be escaped, no matter what the vet says, as they grow in soil as well. As long as your run as good airflow through it, they won't cause a bit of problem. The only time mold spores become a danger is when the birds are enclosed in an area with mold spores present and the air is continually stale~such as in a house or in coops that are not well ventilated. In and open run, it's much like as if the chickens were just living on a forest floor.
Deep litter has to be deep, so if you merely had a few inches of wet, matted leaves in the run, I could see where it would turn out to be a nasty mess. Try mixing different particle sizes, throwing in the bark, twigs, woody plant stems and anything else that can decompose at different rates and still provide air pockets in the litter. If built deeply enough~even on the stone floor~it should start to work well, while wicking the moisture into the bottom layers and leaving the top fairly springy and merely moist.
You have a small run, so you might want to either flip the manure under the bedding weekly~just a shallow flip of the top layer~ or put a new layer of dry leaves or material on top. It's like lasagna gardening, so think of layering and keeping the manure in the layers. Once you get it deep enough and with varied materials, the chickens will do much of that for you.
Either way you do it, decomposing plant material is going to have any number of mold/fungi spores in it, breaking it down. As long as you provide fresh air flow into that space, your birds shouldn't suffer one bit.
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Sorry Beekissed :blush: Your coop is equivalent to a decent size coop and run set-up over here, so I think I just had a picture of it in my head and said that without thinking :lol:
Mine has wire mesh sides, so the air and rain gets in, but the roof keeps the worst off of the weather off. The rain in winter can be relentless and go on for weeks here. My chickens got a large bag of leaves to add to the mix today. They were enthusiastically digging through them for hours :)
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I just emptied approx. 100 bags of leaves on my garden and my flock are now doing the same. For some reason they think there will be instant bugs under those leaves, just because you give them a pile to sort through. :lol: The leaves are so deep they are just wading through, climbing over, struggling to find a spot to stand balanced and give a scratch.
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I've just seen your pictures in 'What I did on the plot today'. Your hens must have been beside themselves with that lot to go at :lol:
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They tried, at first....but then they went over in the shallow end and played. There's no way they are moving those deep leaves and it didn't take them long to figure that one out. :lol:
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Well...winter has arrived and litter material is stored and then some. I've already got several pumpkin and watermelon rinds that need buried into the roost litter after the birds ate the contents. I'll bury those rinds face down and let the worms take care of turning them into compost by spring.
I've scavenged several pumpkins to feed out this winter, but will wait to feed the rest after they've frozen and thawed several times. Seems to make them sweeter and easier to eat, even the rinds are consumed then.
(http://www.backyardchickens.com/image/id/18172089/width/700/height/700/flags/LL)
Got the shade tarp off and the clear tarp lets in the winter sun, warming and lighting the winter coop into a cozy place...
(http://www.backyardchickens.com/image/id/18195591/width/700/height/700/flags/LL)
Training up my new, extra LGD to help my old dog, Jake, protect the flock this winter.....
(http://www.backyardchickens.com/image/id/18195593/width/700/height/700/flags/LL)
I'm ready for winter snows....getting the heated dog bucket and dog bowl(use this one as my winter chicken waterer) out this week, as I had to break ice on the communal water pan today.
Just a minor tweak or so to the roosting area of the coop to be done this week and I'm ready. Hope to make plenty of compost this winter for my spring gardens in this coop.
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I'd really like some advice on this. I have two runs, one that I put my girls in during the day, we only built it this summer it consists of 6 foot high wire mesh panels resting on the garden soil, with an anti dig skirt of wire mesh around the outside. I live in London where urban daytime foxes are very common and we built it as a fox proof daytime run for when we are not in the garden. The other run encloses the coop and has a paving stone floor which we installed after we had a big problem with rats tunneling in. The problems I have are that the flagstone floor is boring and the girls can't scratch about, they have a big dust box & we put bark in there as well. The floor ends up very yukky and smelly. The daytime soil based run has been great all summer but now the weather has turned the floor has turned into a mud bath, I put a huge pile of leaves in there last week thinking that they'd keep the girls out of the mud & that they'd compost down. Yesterday I spent the afternoon raking out a stinking sour mass of horrible leaves. The run still smells revolting even though I've taken the leaves out I don't want to put the girls in there for fear of disease. Should I have put a mixture of stuff on the floor? is bark from the garden centre OK to use? one of the chicken product sites advises against it saying that it harbours mould spores and that hard wood chippings should be used instead. Could I use the deep litter approach you describe on the paving stones in the other run?
We have a walk-in covered and skirted run enclosing the coop. For several months this was sited on the paving-slabbed patio and we used a "deep litter" bed of hardwood wood chipping mixed with a little hemp bedding (both from flytesofancy). Within weeks the bedding would turn into a revolting, foul smelling mess and raking it out into trugs to take down to the allotment was enough to make you retch. We moved the coop/run set-up down the garden and repeated the same bedding along with a small bale of straw (petshop rabbit bedding) onto a bare earth floor. Result that after a few months, the decayed bedding can be removed but without a hint of the previous slime and stench.
When organic matter (chicken poo, spilt food etc) decays it can start to liquify and together with any rain water run-off, seeps down through the bedding. On slabs, the liquid can't drain anywhere and becomes an anaerobic (starved of oxygen) puddle. It's the anaerobic fermentation under the top layer that smells disgusting and potentially pathogenic bugs can flourish, and so becomes a health risk to the flock. On bare earth, an.y liquid drains into the soil and anaerobic fermentation never gets a chance to start. "Good" aerobic bacteria flourish therefore breaking down the chicken poo more effectively to create a rich crumbly surface which the chicks love to scrat around in and eventually turns into a wonderful and completely odour-less soil dressing.
Paving slabs may deter, but wont prevent, rats who will find a way to squeeze in for a snack of spilt layers pellets. They are always there its just that you notice them more when they have an easy meal to tunnel in for
We also live in London and have suffered losses to the street-wise urban foxes but I think our current set-up of (hopefully) fox-proof run and deep litter on bare earth is the best we've come up with so far. I would not try to create a deep litter bed on slabs again unless I could find a way to create enough drainage
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Mid winter here and the deep litter is performing lovely, as per usual. Several bags of leaves into the coop this year and I have several more bags stored to be used if needed. It's around a 8-12 in. deep throughout the coop, deepest in the area below the roosts.
We've been down to -1 this year but no freezing of the litter and the coop is staying cozy at 10 degrees warmer at the roost level than outside temps. As the snow melts from this last snow fall of 18 in., the humidity in the coop rises along with the ambient humidity outdoors. Opening up more ventilation at floor level beneath the roosts helped move that humidity out and no frosting of the roosters combs and wattles has occurred all winter.
No bad smells in the coop, even with the rise in moisture from the snow melting. Just smells like a forest floor if one lifts the bedding to one's nose. Can't wait to put some of this on the garden come spring!
(http://cdn.backyardchickens.com/e/ea/900x900px-LL-eacfc565_100_4113.jpeg)
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It's that time of year again, when the deep litter gets the deepest as garden waste is deposited into the coop and then the fall leaves arrive. Every year I thank God for having found out about composting deep litter~not just deep bedding~and the benefits to my coop and my life with chickens.
No smells, no fecal matter with which to contend and pile up for composting before use on the garden, no flies...haven't seen a fly in my coop for 4 yrs now. Clean feet, which leads to cleaner nests and eggs, and something for the chickens to do when the snow is deep, not to mention a place in which they can dust all winter long.
First leaves of the season....
(http://www.backyardchickens.com/image/id/20268059/width/700/height/700/flags/LL)
Before that, I piled 15 full cart loads of weeds, grasses, and garden waste in the coop and spare pen, where it will compost quietly all winter long under a thick layer of leaves. Come spring it will be returned to the garden as rich, dark, and lovely compost.
(http://cdn.backyardchickens.com/1/11/900x900px-LL-116c2a03_100_5008.jpeg)
(http://cdn.backyardchickens.com/7/75/900x900px-LL-752357db_100_5013.jpeg)
This time I was careful to NOT include my tomato canning scraps in the litter compost....did that last year and had literally hundreds of volunteer tomatoes in the BTE garden! :lol:
I've got two sets of people in town who will save me their leaves...and I mean TONS of leaves...this fall. One of those persons mulches their leaves, so that comes in handy for putting into the garden and around fruit trees. The other leaves their leaves whole and those are great for the coop. Both of those households received eggs this summer. ;)
Love how these chickens work for me as much as I work for them and this deep litter is just one way they do this.
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Here's some pics of temps in the coop at mid morning today....it was a balmy, breezy 45* outside the coop and this at roost height inside the coop....**All temps in Fahrenheit***
(http://www.backyardchickens.com/content/type/61/id/7662941/width/500/height/1000/flags/LL)
And two different readings of the biomass of DL directly under the roosts at that time....keep in mind this mass hasn't had any moisture added except from the feces, the materials, the humidity in the soil and air. Also keep in mind that this thermometer probe can only go 5 in. deep, so it's likely hotter a little deeper in....
(http://www.backyardchickens.com/content/type/61/id/7662942/width/500/height/1000/flags/LL)
(http://www.backyardchickens.com/content/type/61/id/7662946/width/500/height/1000/flags/LL)
At the most shallow depth under there, it read a mere 85*.
This is a very open air coop with large areas of ventilation at all levels, even right next to this mass. Those stay open all night long too.
Will take readings when the temps drop to single digits and subzero and are sustained to see how much heat is generated if the mass goes dormant from the cold. Not likely to happen any time soon as we are experiencing spring like temps right now.
Warms the flock in the winter months, creates a beneficial microbial life in the coop, gives them warm and dry footing underneath, digests the nightly fecal deposits, no smells in the coop, no flies in the summer, provides endless activity for the flock when they are snowbound in the coop, soft landing when dismounting from the roosts, clean eggs, and best of all? FREE
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I never even thought about checking for threads on ''Deep Litter'' , but glad i came across this old one. Ive thoroughly enjoyed reading it and getting ideas for my hopefully new house and run later this year.