[Kleftiwallah]

I follow the recipe but my bread always seems to 'slump' if I try to make a loaf without a loaf tin.  How do I keep it pert and erect, (stop sniggering in the back there).  

When it is about to go into the oven on a tray, can I 'reform' it into a 'proper loaf shape' and will it stay there?  I've transferred 2/3rds into a loaf tin and devided the remainder into two buns.

Cheers,    Tony.

[Trillium]

Without a pan to force it into shape, it's a hopeless cause. Unless you like the 'boule' shape which it will hold.

[sunshineband]

Trillium is right

Stiffer dough makes hard and horrible bread

The roundy 'boule' slumps too, but forms a flatter round loaf which is quite attractive. You can stud the top with rosemary sprigs, or sprinkle seeds or salt crystals on it, or glaze with egg & milk and it looks rather scrummy then

[allotmentann]

If you want a round loaf can you use a deep round tin the same as you would use for fruit cake? Is there a reason you prefer not to use a tin? I cook a lot of bread without tins but they tend to be the flatter types, like focaccia. The other thing you could do is make your dough into rolls rather than a loaf. These do keep their shape well (although you have probably found that out if you made buns!).
Just been looking on one of my favourite web sites for bread and most of the ones baked without a tin say to spritz with warm water before baking, I wonder what this does?
http://www.kingarthurflour.com/recipes/bread

[Mrs Bee]

The spraying of the water helps to make a crusty bread.

You can put a metal dish of water in the bottom of the oven to the same effect.

Tony, you do need a metal tin to keep the bread shape but you could make a cottage loaf type of bread which keeps the  bread pert and errect. Just divide the dough into 2 thirds and 1 third and roll into balls. Put the smaller one on the top of the larger ball and stick your floured finger into the top ball and through to the bottom ball. Make some downwards slashes with a very sharp knife or a stanley knife and leave to double in size.

I take it you give your dough a first rising and then shape the bread and give it a second.

If you over proove the loaf it will loose its  erection.

Sour dough bread keeps itself pert and I use a mixed grain bread which you can shape into a round loaf, slash diamond shapes on it and it rises to give you a good round loaf, although if you want really high you need a tin.

Recipe is.....

1 and 1/2 teaspoon easy blend dried yeast
300g strong white bread flour
150g spelt or wholemeal

50g rye flour
1 and 1/2 tsp salt
3 tablespoons oil
175ml water and175 milk
Make as usual.
Di

[shokkyy]

I don't often bother to use a tin, but I normally make loaves in a bloomer kind of shape. As long as you put some tension into it when you shape the dough, I don't find it slumps too much.

[allotmentann]

Mrs Ball I knew you would know the answer (yet agian!)! Thank you 

[joyfull]

I too do not use a tin and make my farmhouse shaped loaves and they hold their shape quite well except for when I forget them whilst they are proving and then they go flatter and very wide.

[Mrs Bee]

Mrs Ball I knew you would know the answer (yet agian!)! Thank you 

Oh dear, how sad am I. 

I can't remember what I said 10 minutes ago and yet  can remember anything about cooking:lol:

[allotmentann]

Mrs Ball I knew you would know the answer (yet agian!)! Thank you 

Oh dear, how sad am I. 

I can't remember what I said 10 minutes ago and yet  can remember anything about cooking:lol:

Perhaps like me you only  remember the things that really interest you! If you were making a fabulous new cake five minutes ago you would remember it. Dusting, etc why bother remembering? That is my excuse and I am sticking to it!

[grendel]

make more loaves then they only slump until they hit their neighbour, plus you get that nice soft tear bit between the loaves.
Grendel

[cheshirecheese]

I went to see Dan Lepard doing a bread making demo at a local food festival last summer.  If you read the various bakers' books (Dan Lepard, Richard Bertinet, Paul Hollywood et al), they all have slightly different techniques (and also the quantity of yeast can vary).  

Dan Lepard's technique was developed by accident when he was working as a pastry chef in a big kitchen - he didn't have time to stand and knead his dough for the usual 10 minutes or so, as he kept having to dash off to see to other jobs.  However, he found that by bringing the ingredients together into an initial dough, then leaving it and coming back, kneading it a little more, leaving it and coming back etc., etc., that it resulted in a much better structure and flavour (because the overall process took longer).  

Although Dan Lepard's method is a bit of a faff, I have actually found that if you have the time and patience, the minimum amount of yeast and a longer, cooler proving period (without all Dan's to-ing and fro-ing!) do help to avoid the 'slump'!!  

[cheshirecheese]

... and evidence of the above is a recipe of Paul Hollywood's that I tried, which had substantially more yeast than usual.  Wow, did it rise and then some!  And in a much shorter time, too.  But of course it then proceeded to collapse, the texture was awful and I certainly won't be using it again!!

[Kleftiwallah]

Just before the bread went in, I chucked a load of boiling water into a shallow tray on the base of the oven - best loaf and crust yet.  Previously the crust had been a bit hard (and I've still got all my own teeth apart from two).

The crust was suptle and yealding (sniggering again)!

Cheers and thanks for all the hints.  Tony.