[WeavingGryphon]

I've been making bread on and off for a year now. I've mostly I'd given up since last autum. Given how things are it (Covid) might be an idea to give it another go. I've tried sourdough and yeasted dough. I am equally dire.

I grew up near a brick factory and had school trips there so i can say with authority the loaves I made had the same texture, just less dense. Marginally. Not much rising tiny bubbles and it's like slicing a slice off a log. Day 2 and it was only good for soup, you needed soup to soften it for it to be maybe not edible, but to let you gnaw on it.

What all am I doing wrong?  I say all because I'm that bad it maybe more than one thing, whatever it is, it's the same for both yeasted and sourdough bread. i'm stopping the yeast from producing bubbles.
I've tried wholemeal, spelt, rye, white, strong white and multi grain flourdirect from the mill who grinds it's own home grown grain. The sourdough culture went mad in the flour. I've kneaded it by hand and using the kitchen mixer, with the correct attachment.

When it does rise it tends to go flat when I move it from the proving bowl. So I stopped that and proved it in a tin, still flat. I only have rock and table salt (it's for salt dough) in the house. the rock salt is super salty so I was wondering could it be killing the dough? So I left it out or reduced it. No difference.
I've put the dough right under the heated dryer, beside the computer, with the boiler, snuggled up next to a hot water bottle, near the hob but not right next to it. You know warm places. I've left it longer, I fed it a bit of sugar, treacle one time, added the salt late, added it when I was told. No difference.


• salt
• no salt
• reduced salt,
• scored,
• unscored,
• yeast
• sourdough
• have extra time, will you do something
• the recipe times are LAW
• with steam
• meh, it won't work anyway, no steam ahead

I will say my wheaten bread works, but it's a bicarb loaf. So it doesn't count.
Am I just a pathetic failure at the third of the kitchen arts (cooking, baking, bread)?

[snowdrops]

Have you watched any videos or YouTube on making bread? Do you put the salt & yeast together-you shouldn’t? Do you use quick yeast, dried yeast or fresh yeast?

[hasbeans]

Bread Hydration and Conversion Calculator
It helps with quantities- I aim for 63% hydration but owt above 60 works, gets a bit sticky for me over 63%
The dutch oven was a step up for me - lots of steam in the big le creuset helps the rise and crust.
I rise slowly at coolish room temps (including cool water) over about 4 hours and use more stretching and tucking than kneading.  goes in the pan cold and into a hot oven, works a treat.  leave the lid on for a good forty mins if a big loaf.




 

[hasbeans]

Reading your post again I'll add:
salt kills yeast - use less or add it later! 
Rise slower/cooler
Avoid novelty flour for now - strong white with a bit of w/meal for virtue (20%?) is good

[WeavingGryphon]

Have you watched any videos or YouTube on making bread? Do you put the salt & yeast together-you shouldn’t? Do you use quick yeast, dried yeast or fresh yeast?

I have watched videos and I seem to be doing everything correct.

Reading your post again I'll add:
salt kills yeast - use less or add it later! 
Rise slower/cooler
Avoid novelty flour for now - strong white with a bit of w/meal for virtue (20%?) is good

This past loaf, I added the salt between the proves while it was in the mixer. In the past I left it out, added it on time, added it late. All looked the same. I've looked out a camera and put a photo on of the "bubbles".

I've had 2 batches of yeast and both were in date, the sourdough rose but went flat. Although it's better than that in the picture. It just doesn't seem to want to rise.

[jaydig3]

The only things that have happened to me in the past are that the dried yeast was well out of date and that I have over-proved the dough.  I now make sure that the dried yeast is still well in date, and always, once opened, stored in the fridge.  If I don't have time to deal with the final stages of making a loaf I either put the dough into a cold lobby area at the back of the house, or even into the fridge. This lengthens the proving time and helps to prevent overdoing it.  Again, as everyone else has said - don't overdo the salt. Practice makes perfect.

[Growster...]

We bought some live yeast a couple of weeks ago, and it has liquefied!

I've popped it in the fridge now - is this the right thing to do?

[mumofstig]

First - I'd say give up with the sour dough for now, there's quite a knack to it - not a good idea for beginners.
2nd make sure your yeast granules are active by adding 1 teaspoon of sugar and 2 1/4 teaspoons of yeast (one envelope) to 1/4 cup of warm water, then wait 10mins, If the mixture bubbles up and smells yeasty, then it's ok.
My ingredients for a simple loaf for beginners.
400g strong bread flour (I sometimes mix in other flours, or porage oats (my fav!) but always start with 300g strong white)
2 tablespns of oil or butter
1 tablespn of milk powder
1 & half teaspns salt
6g EASY BAKE yeast
1 & half teaspns sugar
260g lukewarm water
Bung it all in a mixer or a breadmaker and leave to knead.
Tip out into an oiled basin, cover with plastic bag or cling-film and leave 'til doubled. The colder the weather the longer it takes...
Punch it down and tip out.
Either shape into a loaf and put into a tin, or for rolls, cut the dough into 8 or 9 pieces and roll each into a ball. Flatten slightly and place on a baking tray. They do spread a little during the 2nd rising so don't put them too close together.
Leave to rise again with oiled plastic or clingfilm draped gently over them, once risen bake at 180C fan - gas 6  for  apx 20mins for rolls, apx 30-35mins for the loaf.
Tip out of tin to check that the loaf is cooked at the bottom, return to oven for 5mins if the bottom is still soft.

[WeavingGryphon]

First - I'd say give up with the sour dough for now, there's quite a knack to it - not a good idea for beginners.
2nd make sure your yeast granules are active by adding 1 teaspoon of sugar and 2 1/4 teaspoons of yeast (one envelope) to 1/4 cup of warm water, then wait 10mins, If the mixture bubbles up and smells yeasty, then it's ok.

We have given up on the sourdough, it was dense but not bad.
Check on the yeast, it foams and smells. We have the yeast that needs to activate. Oh, one thing I did blend it to break it up though.

My ingredients for a simple loaf for beginners.
400g strong bread flour (I sometimes mix in other flours, or porage oats (my fav!) but always start with 300g strong white)
2 tablespns of oil or butter
1 tablespn of milk powder
1 & half teaspns salt
6g EASY BAKE yeast
1 & half teaspns sugar
260g lukewarm water
Bung it all in a mixer or a breadmaker and leave to knead.
Tip out into an oiled basin, cover with plastic bag or cling-film and leave 'til doubled. The colder the weather the longer it takes...
Punch it down and tip out.
Either shape into a loaf and put into a tin, or for rolls, cut the dough into 8 or 9 pieces and roll each into a ball. Flatten slightly and place on a baking tray. They do spread a little during the 2nd rising so don't put them too close together.
Leave to rise again with oiled plastic or clingfilm draped gently over them, once risen bake at 180C fan - gas 6  for  apx 20mins for rolls, apx 30-35mins for the loaf.
Tip out of tin to check that the loaf is cooked at the bottom, return to oven for 5mins if the bottom is still soft.

My recipe was the Quick white loaf from the handmade Loaf: by Dan Lepard. I made one loaf, not 2 small ones. I'll use your recipe next time with strong white and some Cotswold crunch dark as the 100g. It didn't rise much either proving time, I'll maybe prove it in a warm oven next time-we haven't eaten what we've got yet.

Just watching Paul Hollywood's video, sometimes we get the strands and bubbles, typically with the sourdough. but not this loaf's time.

What do people prove it in? I prove it in a floured proving bowl-the round spiralled ones with the sack cloth lining.

[mumofstig]

The first prove is always in an oiled plastic mixing bowl, the 2nd is in a tin, or a circle of greased paper. I've never managed to make a loaf that stayed 'up' after it had been tipped out of a proving basket, without some support. Although they looked ok, without it, they all flattened too much -  ok for soup dipping etc but not so good for sandwiches

[WeavingGryphon]

The first prove is always in an oiled plastic mixing bowl, the 2nd is in a tin, or a circle of greased paper. I've never managed to make a loaf that stayed 'up' after it had been tipped out of a proving basket, without some support. Although they looked ok, without it, they all flattened too much -  ok for soup dipping etc but not so good for sandwiches

Thank you for saying that. I thought I was being stupid because one of the books I was reading said to tip it out of the proving bowl gently and bake, it will be fine. I was thinking that's the best way to deflate it.

[DanielCoffey]

Check on the yeast, it foams and smells. We have the yeast that needs to activate. Oh, one thing I did blend it to break it up though.

When you say you blended it, do you mean just stir it with a spoon? Manual blending with a spoon is fine. If you used a stick blender or something, that might damage the yeast.

[WeavingGryphon]

When you say you blended it, do you mean just stir it with a spoon? Manual blending with a spoon is fine. If you used a stick blender or something, that might damage the yeast.

This time a stick blender on low shear. But usually I whisk it with a fork and leave it for a bit. Yeast are that small it shouldn't affect them. It wasn't any different to previous occasions afterwards.

[WeavingGryphon]

My ingredients for a simple loaf for beginners.
400g strong bread flour (I sometimes mix in other flours, or porage oats (my fav!) but always start with 300g strong white)
2 tablespns of oil or butter
1 tablespn of milk powder
1 & half teaspns salt
6g EASY BAKE yeast
1 & half teaspns sugar
260g lukewarm water
Bung it all in a mixer or a breadmaker and leave to knead.
Tip out into an oiled basin, cover with plastic bag or cling-film and leave 'til doubled. The colder the weather the longer it takes...
Punch it down and tip out.
Either shape into a loaf and put into a tin, or for rolls, cut the dough into 8 or 9 pieces and roll each into a ball. Flatten slightly and place on a baking tray. They do spread a little during the 2nd rising so don't put them too close together.
Leave to rise again with oiled plastic or clingfilm draped gently over them, once risen bake at 180C fan - gas 6  for  apx 20mins for rolls, apx 30-35mins for the loaf.
Tip out of tin to check that the loaf is cooked at the bottom, return to oven for 5mins if the bottom is still soft.

That's it on it's first prove. I had to add extra water in increments until the mixer stopped struggling, the flour all became part of the mix and it looked like Paul Hollywood's amongst other's video. I use 100g of the dark Cotswold crunch and it's a thirsty flour.

MUST NOT PEEK. Again anyway, it looks like it's floofing up.

Modify to add, it could do with more floofing up. make some effort bread.

[WeavingGryphon]

Still failing to make effort and rise, but it was doing the windowpane thing.