Allotment Gardening Advice Help Chat
Poultry and Pets => The Hen House => Topic started by: compie on August 04, 2010, 10:37
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hi there can you tell me were your allotment is as i have been told by spalding council its not allowed to keep hens on allotments thanks
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Hello Compie and welcome. How about visiting our welcome section and introducing yourself there. As for allotments I think that chickens and rabbits are allowed under part of the allotments act but not cockerels and it may depend on the care and conditions they are kept on as well as the quantities.
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thanks for the reply joyfull but the problem i have is my council say i does matter what the allotment act says hens are still livestock and will evict any 1 putting hens on there allotments
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Where abouts are you?
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im in spalding under south holland district council
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I know that council (I'm in Donington so same council :lol:). GTFC (think he is on his hols at the moment) is between me and Spalding and I know the council have given him and his neighbours some land at the back of their houses to turn into allotments. They have been given permission to have pigs and chickens. I will split your posts off and make a seperate topic for you and hopefully somebody who is up on the legal side of it will come along and help you - quite a few have had similar problems to this and have got it sorted :)
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But there are some allotments where you are not allowed to keep anything live, not even hens.
but I hope you get it sorted!
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thanks that would be great
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Hi Compie
Found by googling - The Allotment Act reads:
THE 1950 ALLOTMENTS ACT
section 12
Abolition of contractual restrictions on keeping hens and rabbits(1)Notwithstanding any provision to the contrary in any lease or tenancy or in any covenant, contract or undertaking relating to the use to be made of any land, it shall be lawful for the occupier of any land to keep, otherwise than by way of trade or business, hens or rabbits in any place on the land and to erect or place and maintain such buildings or structures on the land as reasonably necessary for that purpose
As I understand it this 1950 Act is the most recent one and thus IS the law that governs hen keeping on allotments.
But as it says, there are two exceptions that can come in to play:
1. The Council which owns the allotment can pass a By-law restricting use of the land for keeping chx.
2. The Allotment is privately owned - perhaps a person, or trust - and has restricted use in the original lease.
I did read somewhere (might be on here) that someone had been told by their Council that a by-law was in operation but when they asked to see a copy of the by-law the Council couldn't produce it! So if that's the case with yours insist they produce evidence!
Up the Chooks! :D (didn't mean that to sound as rude as it did!)
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they have admitted they have no bye law but they are little hitlers that say they do not have to take notice of an act of parliment believe it or not :lol:
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I'm afraid the do need to comply with the law:
http://www.nsalg.org.uk/uploads/article459/Hens%20and%20Rabbits%20on%20Allotment%20Plots.pdf
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I think the only way you get proper sense out of many organisations these days is to write and send your letter by recorded delivery (costs about a £1 from post office - can't claim not to have received it then).
Tell them what you want and ask them to respond in a reasonable timeframe. Write again enclosing copy of original if they don't. Keep at it until you get a a proper explanation. Involve local press if you don't get anywhere and see your local councillor who will have regular surgeries. If you keep at it and there is no by-law you will win. They cannot ignore the law. Good luck.
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... and even a bye law cannot overturn an act of parilament.
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I think it does where the Council own the land - see the section quoted from the Act above. :(
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Found by googling - The Allotment Act reads:
THE 1950 ALLOTMENTS ACT
section 12
Abolition of contractual restrictions on keeping hens and rabbits(1)Notwithstanding any provision to the contrary in any lease or tenancy or in any covenant, contract or undertaking relating to the use to be made of any land, it shall be lawful for the occupier of any land to keep, otherwise than by way of trade or business, hens or rabbits in any place on the land and to erect or place and maintain such buildings or structures on the land as reasonably necessary for that purpose
That means that "inspite of" any proviosion to the contrary it is lawful for the occupier to keep hens and rabbits.
Many councils have tried to ban hens but as the NSALG says: "So that the right to keep creatures within s, 12 on an allotment plot can be placed beyond argument,"
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I hope you can have some Compie and hello i'm in DSN. :)
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As I understand it although by-laws are subordinate to statutory Acts, local authorities have legislative power within their competence - ie if they own the land they have the right to restrict its use just as a private owner would eg some local authority housing restricts keeping animsls. Having said that they are obligated to make available to the public view any by-laws and people have the right to request seeing them at Council town halls.
Compie should take the matter to her local Councillor if they refuse.
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The NSALG state that:
This means that hens – domestic chickens and/ or rabbits - can be kept and housed on an allotment plot as of right.
‘As of right’, in this context, means that the consent of the appropriate
municipal authority is not required, and need not be sought. That said, NSALG thinks it a matter of courtesy, where a plot holder intends to keep hens and/or rabbits, that the following be observed : the plot holder should:
(i) inform the authority of the intention to keep creatures;
(ii) state the number of creatures it is intended to keep ; and
(iii) furnish a telephone number in case of any problem with creatures kept.
The law is very clear and when prohibiting bye laws are contested by an allotment holder the council loses.
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thanks for all the info every1 i have an appointment with CAB on monday they are going to do letters to the council for and 1 to john hayes to let him know what they are doing as i contacted john hayes and he wants councils written response but they refuse to put in writing to me
john hayes is local mp by the way
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Get John Hayes to write to them - they should respond to him - he is quite good at working for his constituency.
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just got back from CAB council need a week to check rules and replie
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been waiting 9 days for letter from council and i thought a week was 7 days must be a council week
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Try sending GTFC a pm as he is now back of his hols I think :)
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thanks joyfull i will try that
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hi everyone i have got an allotment in king's lynn and we are allowed chickens and rabbits,but ive seen even ferrets on there, but we are not allowed cocks as one neighbour who only moved in recently complained, what a joke!
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hi corkee sad to say but 1 killjoy is all it needs
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i know people been keeping them for years and this one person spoils it all,plus the people who dont look after their allotments!
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Hi all,
Look out I'm back. :tongue2:
Compie, i have sent you an email, hope it helps. ;)
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Welcome back - I knew you would be able to help :D
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thanks mick can you tell me if the strip is council owned
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Hi compie,
As far as I know it is owned by the council, but whether it is classed as allotments I'm not sure.
There are 10 houses, and 10 strips,
2 are bought, (one of them is not used)
4 are just left, (2 of them you wouldn't know were there)
1 is turned over by a farmer with his tractor to keep it tidy, but is not used.
3 remaining are being used.
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thanks for the info mick
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been waiting 26 days for council to send there reasons for not allowing hens on allotments
C.A.B have now contacted business ombudsman but will be at least 3 weeks waiting for there reply >:(
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Stick at it Compie, and best of luck!
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Hi compie,
typical councils, if they want an answer from anyone they can demand it, why don't you do the same. >:(
Write and tell them that unless they come up with a legal reason why you cannot have chickens on your allotment within 14 days then you will take it that they have no objection. ;)
Send it recorded delivery, it will be worth the £1.15p just to think that they might be panicking that they will have to do some work. :lol:
Keep us informed as to how things go.
keep at 'em & Good luck
Mick. 8)
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just rang government ombudsmans advice line unbelievable i have to allow the council 12 weeks to reply :(
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whilst nobody can condone a person doing something without permission there is a saying that it is easier to ask for forgiveness after the event rather than to gain permission beforehand ::)
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the problem with that idea is that they are living things and if the council say no then what happens to them :(
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What a facinating thread - I do hope you manage to beat these jobs-worth pen-pushers!
My concern is that David Cameron wants to pass on more authority locally - power to the
people and all that. With our incumbant jobs-worths, this country will end up like the
third world. A cheery thought :tongue2:
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been waiting 29 days now for the councils written decision which was supposed to get to me in 7 days . he must be a very efficient manager :unsure:
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Typical Council. I've had my local one deny receiving a letter I posted by recorded delivery before now.
However, did you say on a previous post the Ombudsman allows them 12 weeks to reply? If so, I bet they take the full 12 weeks! :mad:
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yes i bet they take the full 12 weeks bunch of idiots that they are
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I've been following this thread with interest. As a wee girl (40+ years ago) I lived on an allotment in a 'but and ben', and most people kept chickens and rabbets for food; they also trapped the wild rabbets.
I'm going to go off on a tangent now.
In between then and now we've had the 'good life' of the 70's when people went loopy and moved all manner of farm animals into their back gardens.
We then went through the throw away era of the 80's and 90's to arrive in the 21st century of 'aesthetically pleasing views' and 'sterile living' where bins are collected fortnightly :mad: and one persons wants/dislikes are more important than the majority :mad: :mad: :mad:
Luckily I live in Derbyshire where, on the whole it would appear common sense still exists (or we just haven't caught up yet) with chickens, even cockerels, seen on allotments. I have even seen goats and sheep.
I know this hasn't helped solve your problem Compie, but I just wondered if some of the reasons they come up with would be, any live stock would encourage vermin onto the site or that 'some' people would flout the system.
Sorry for the waffle :)
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its even worst when you realise im in spalding wich would not be in existance if not for its livestock auctions until a few years ago when it was pulled down and sold for supermarkets by our council
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Hi compie, ;)
I have just deleted my last post about your problem, not sure why I wrote what I did. :blush:
must be the fact that I have just done my first week back at work after being off ill for the last 6 months. :)
What is so frustrating, :mad: is the fact that 2 of the strips of land are totally overgrown, ( one is bought ) and neither have ever been used in the 10 yrs that I have lived here, >:( >:( and yet there are people like yourself who are screaming out for a piece of your own little bit of independance.
My nextdoor neighbour has said that she will not be using her strip either, but has said that I can use it if I want to. :) :)
Going to contact the council to get permission first, to see if I can take over it as it
is next to mine and would make a great growing strip for my planned fruit trees and bushes, also will give me more room to rotate my chooks area. ( no, not in the fruit area ) :tongue2:
Keep in touch as to how you get on with your case.
Best wishes.
Mick. ;) ;)
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well mick our allotment holders have just been informed we are breaking the rules if we have fruit trees when asked why there reply was they are permanent structures do you think our allotment manager has a mental problem :lol:
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If anything fruit trees are an asset that can be passed on to the next plot owner, what about fruit bushes then, has he never heard of a chainsaw, numpty or what ??? >:(
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A fruit tree is a what??????? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Don't tell me, if you get planning permission to have a fruit tree you have to have a building inspector to come and check if the hole is deep & wide enough, because it is a permanent structure. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
so if nobody cleared the weeds from a section of their plot, then they are breaking the law because if they don't get moved they are there permanetly.
so what are brambles then????? :unsure: :unsure: :unsure: :unsure:
Sorry to hear about this, but it has made my day, :lol: :lol:
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There is a plot on my site which was planted up as an orchard some time ago. The owner has now left the plot, which cannot be either divided or used for regular veg / fruit growing. The trees are too established to dig out and the roots spread a significant distance. The trees also cast a significant amount of shade over neighbouring plots.
I can fully understand why some sites do ban trees altogether and it's not very nice to accuse someone of having a mental problem because you don't agree with their interpretation of the rules, compie.
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yorkie sorry if you took my comment in the wrong way but notice the smiley at the end as in a joke and as for trees i will make a new post for you to read
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No probs compie :D
Anyway, back on topic ............ :)
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just recieved letter from john hayes MP he has raised the matter with the council and is waiting for there reply at the bottom of the typed letter in hand writing is
P.S. of course you should be able to keep hens ! kind regards J.H
hopfully i might be getting some were now :)
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John Hayes is my MP as well and he really does work hard on behalf of his constituents, so hopefully things will now get sorted :)
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It sounds like they are getting somewere at last, with the MP on your sideit should be in you favour. Good luck, fingers arms toes and anything else that i can find are all crossed for you. :)
Its not easy to type with crossed fingers and arms. :lol:
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Good on ya Compie,
Try contacting local newspaper, they may find it interesting.
You will win in the end.
Regards,
Mick.
ps
Don't get on here much now as I am back at work, but please keep me informed. ;)
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Think local paper a good idea. When my next door neighbour saw the new henhouse in our back garden, she told everybody (apart from us) that she was going to complain to the council if we got chickens and they kept her awake or made any noise.
We had them for 6 days before she even noticed they were already there. :tongue2: Now she is a convert and has told everyone that they are beautiful and can't wait for the eggs!! Best bit is that 4 years ago when we were thinking about getting rabbits she said "get chickens at least you get eggs off them" Ha Ha.
Good luck with your battle against the boring pen pushers.
Jinty
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Dear Mr ********
Allotments Act 1950
I refer to our correspondence/conversations in connection with the above and your request to keep hens on your allotment.
South Holland district Council has previously resisted requests for livestock on allotments due to concerns over there welfare and the impact on adjacent plots/residences. The above legislation however does permit hens to be kept on allotments.
I can confirm that you are therefore at liberty to have hens on your plot as requested all in accordance with Section 12 of the allotments act.
Yours sincerely
********
Neighbourhood Services Manager
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Result compie :D
I told you they'd have to roll over if challenged - acts of parliament are law until repealed
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That's brilliant news - congratulations!
Kym
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Go Compie :D and a big :tongue2: to the pen pushers :lol:
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fantastic - so pleased for you :D
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thank you to every one who helped :D
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Brilliant news, when are you going to get you girls, and how many?. It has made my day finding that you can have them.
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going to get some ex bats if i can find any in my area but i have to start building a coop and run first :lol:
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good on ya compie, now go get some chooks and enjoy. :D :D :D
really glad for you and now this will make a big difference to alot of other people. ;) ;)
Compie 1
SHDC 0
Regards
Mick.
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Don't be bullied by your parish council! Ours did as it liked until we asked to see the lotty rule book. Just as we thought, it said nothing about not keeping hens so now they are allowed :D
Our site is a member of NSALG and they are brilliant. The Allotment Act is specific and you have rights enshrined in law, so the council can't just do as they wish.
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don't forget to thank our MP as he always does get involved in local issues :)
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done that as soon as they opened :D
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Great result. Well done!! :D :D
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i sent email to lincslittlehens for some ex bats but no reply yet :(