[andreadon]

I thought I'd put this in Hen House not Chicken Chat because it will be useful for anyone who needs to do it.....

On Thursday night, I thought that Mary looked like she might have sour crop (from the description on here) - her crop was huge and floppy with water sounds swishing around inside it.  I checked her breath, but it didn't smell.

anyway, yesterday at work, I checked how to deal with it.

the idea is to turn the chicken upside down and make her vomit.
Actually, it's surprisingly easy, if extremely gross....

I grabbed Mary in the normal manner and popped her under my arm, facing forward.
Then I tipped her slightly forward, so that her head was facing diagonally downwards.
I got hold of her crop and slowly squished it - not in a pinch, but in a kind of movement like you'd squeeze a soft ball : from the the bottom of the crop.
She pushed her head forward and the stuff started pouring out - this is the gross bit!
It made a natural arc, which meant it wasn't messy.
The consistency of the liquid was like pale Bailey's. (and that colour too) and smelled like proper vomit.

then she decided she didn't like it so she shook her head and it all went everywhere!
so I had to adjust my method: I took the hand that was holding her underneath and put it around her neck (so very gently!).
And I had to firm my hold around her with my arm.
She then kept herself still.

I had to push the vomit out twice more before it stopped - Mary was making gagging faces when the vomit wasn't coming out, like she was encouraging it.

I hope this helps anyone who has sour crop: I was worried about the procedure because I didn't see it described in detail.

 

[Vember]

Glad you managed to get her sorted Andreadon

All the info including that about making your girl sick, (which I wouldn't advise to anyone who isn't 100% sure that there is a problem) can be found in the poultry info section here :

http://chat.allotment-garden.org/index.php?topic=4345.0


Sarah

[andreadon]

thanka Sarah!
That was the link I used: I'm always worried about doing things wrongly, so I like to have step-by-step details on it (but I agree with you that people should be 100% sure first....)

I only did it because she was trying to gag herself.
 

[Aunt Sally]

On Thursday night, I thought that Mary looked like she might have sour crop (from the description on here) - her crop was huge and floppy with water sounds swishing around inside it.  I checked her breath, but it didn't smell.

What made you think she had sour crop ?

Had she been sitting huddled up not eating or drinking or taking much interest in anything ? 
Was her crop still enlarged and squishy in the morning before she had anything to eat or drink ? 
Did you have to repeatedly empty foul smelling liquid from her crop throughout the day? 

The liquid is secreated into the crop from the chickens body in reaction to the fungal infection so it keeps refilling and often needs antifungal treatment.  Their breath smells bad with sour crop as it's caused by an infection. 

[karlooben]

i hope i never have to do that  dont like things being sick 

[andreadon]

On Thursday night, I thought that Mary looked like she might have sour crop (from the description on here) - her crop was huge and floppy with water sounds swishing around inside it.  I checked her breath, but it didn't smell.

What made you think she had sour crop ?

Had she been sitting huddled up not eating or drinking or taking much interest in anything ? 
Was her crop still enlarged and squishy in the morning before she had anything to eat or drink ? 
Did you have to repeatedly empty foul smelling liquid from her crop throughout the day? 

The liquid is secreated into the crop from the chickens body in reaction to the fungal infection so it keeps refilling and often needs antifungal treatment.  Their breath smells bad with sour crop as it's caused by an infection. 

yes, she had all the symptoms except bad breath.
It was really quite gross.
We're giving her live yoghurt at the moment, but if she's not better tomorrow she's going to the vet.
(weekends are very annoying)

[Aunt Sally]

Is her crop filling up over night with smelly gunk and you have to empty it in the morning ?

[andreadon]

Well, I emptied it last night before she went to bed (which I was worried about doing because she wouldn't have any food to digest) and this morning it was full again and it wa sall just bile-like stuff that came out.
oh, and it smells on the way out.

she was also quite willing to get rid of it....

(I can't decide whether it was filling up again today in the same way - it was certainly sloppy, but not as swollen: I am reluctant to keep doing it when she's eaten cos I don't want her to starve    )

[Aunt Sally]

If it fills up overnight when it was empty when she went to bed and there is no food or water in the house it would indicate an fungal infection causing the crop to fill with fluid from the body.  This needs anti fungal treatment from a vet.

Sour crop is often the result of an impacted crop from possibly eating course grasses.  It will not be completely blocked but sufficiently to slow transit of food.  This allows food to remain in the crop too long and start to ferment.  A fungal infection caused by Candida albicans then sets up, which is the same organism that causes thrush in people.  Too much starchy food such as potato peelings, rice, pasta, corn will exacerbate the condition.  Live yogurt will help to reduce the candida by lowering the pH.  But an antifungal may well be needed.

[andreadon]

Does this description mean that sour crop is not a fungal infection? Or that it is caused by the fungal infection?

I was just about to ask these questions, but I think you may have answered them!

She did not have an impacted crop to start with: she looked perfectly normal until Thursday.

We have only had her (and her buddies) since the 30th April, so we have been strictly keeping them on layers' mash and water.
They have had no treats (much to the chagrin of the originals who have also been denied them so that the newbies didn't accidentally eat them!!)

I was wondering if she could have had this fungal infection since before she came to us and the symptoms appeared because of the stress of the move.
Or could it be an allergic reaction to the new home?
but none of the others have any symptoms, which would suggest that either reason could be the case if she already had it in her system!
I know that  in people, you always have to had the virus in order to have thrush - it lies dormant till it has a reason to show itself.

Sorry if this sounds too scientific and technical: I'm trying to be as precise as possible so that it may be of help to someone else in the future.

[Hawkins]

Aunt Sally and Andreadon,

Can you tell if a chicken has sour crop from a picture.

I think maybe one of mine has it but unsure.

[andreadon]

Aunt Sally and Andreadon,

Can you tell if a chicken has sour crop from a picture.

I think maybe one of mine has it but unsure.

I wouldn't think you could, Em.

At the moment, I'm waiting to check if it really is sour crop, or if this candida infection is different from sour crop.
fingers crossed, auntie will have all the answers (sorry auntie to put so much pressure on you!!!)

[Aunt Sally]

 

You would need a crystal ball to answer those questions Andrea.  Too many ifs and buts and maybes.

I have just told you a frequent cause for the candida overgrowing, yes it is always present in the chook.  Stress can activate conditions as can many other things.  If she doesn't improve withing a day or two then I'd take her to the vet for some meds.

Will you description be helpful to others ? - possibly, but unlikely as everyones individual problems and conditions are always different  

[Aunt Sally]

Andrea - Sour crop = Candida albicans infection of the crop !

Hawkins, I don't think anyone could diagnose sour crop from a photo, sorry.

[Hawkins]

No problems Aunty,

Thanks Guys