[redwine@roses]

To rotate or not?Next year i am going to have a problem with rotatating brassicas due to a very small plot?would topping the beds with a couple of inches of new topsoil cure the problem<any thoughts on the thorny subject will be welcome.

[JayG]

Yes it is a thorny subject!

There are some general principles on this site which you may find helpful:

http://www.allotment-garden.org/vegetable/crop-rotation/index.php

I agree that on a small plot it is very difficult to practise a formal rotation plan, and very sandy soil like mine makes a bit of a nonsense of the idea that manured soil for crop X should be used next year for crop Y, because almost everything gets leached out of mine over winter anyway!

I suggest you just concentrate on trying to move the most vulnerable crops to pest build-up each year if it is impossible to have a more formal rotation scheme.

[Goosegirl]

I find that my "roots" bed is used for onions, carrots, parsnips, garlic and leeks. I spread our compost/manure on top over winter but only dig it in for the onions, garlic and leeks and just move it to one side when I plant the carrots and parsnips. My brassica bed is the only one I don't dig as it likes firm soil. What I'm trying to say is that you can alot a different space for your next year's brassicas in your small plot - just treat the area differently to what you do for the other veg in the plot. As long as you don't plant the same veg in the same space each year, you should be ok. I agree with JayG except that the addition of manure does help with the soil structure and water retention especially in sandy soils, though the leaching means that you would have to feed more often.

[redwine@roses]

Thanks Jayg and goosegirl for your input,i was thinking that just adding new topsoil would stop the buildup of disease,perhaps somebody will get back with an answer?

[zazen999]

Thanks Jayg and goosegirl for your input,i was thinking that just adding new topsoil would stop the buildup of disease,perhaps somebody will get back with an answer?

Depends on the disease - or the pest....

Clubroot - absolutely not.

Cabbage Root Fly - maybe

Cabbage White Fly - maybe

Whitefly - definitely maybe

What problem did you have?

[solway cropper]

A farmer down the road from here has had early potatoes in the same small field for the last four years. He's lifting them at the moment and will put leeks in after them so the land is in constant use. I did notice that he added trailer loads of well rotted manure before the tatties went in and he does use sprays of some sort. The point is that rotation is not always as necessary as people think. If you practice block planting or square foot gardening it's a bit pointless anyway.

[Kristen]

I have read a suggestion to grow the same thing in the same place UNTIL you have a problem, and then you have uncontaminated soil elsewhere to then move the crop to.

However, I think as well as Pests and Diseases it helps spread what the crops take out of the soil.

Traditional rotation of nitrogen-hungry things following beans, for example; and manuring the crop-before-roots.

I have a 4-year rotation system, and the veg patch is in its 4th year (was virgin meadow), and I reckon everything looks far better now than it did the first year or two.

[Livinhope]

The first thing we did (after the weeds) when we got our plot was to divide it into four and plan what we would plant and where for this year.  We only put growmore on for this year but will manure certain areas shortly to overwinter for next years' crops, the unmanured bits will have compost and/or growmore.   Hopefully we have got it right but it does take some planning.  We have tried to ensure that things like leeks, swede, parsnips and brassicas, the winter crops, are fairly close together so that we aren't having to charge all over the plot to harvest, but we will rotate and nothing will be grown in the same place as last years crop. 

[Snoop]

I'm no expert, but to be honest, I can't see that a couple of inches extra top soil is going to work if you're trying to avoid soil-borne problems. Brassica roots will go down a lot further than that.

You either just carry on as you are until you get a problem, which probably isn't a good idea in a small garden. Or you rotate and grow fewer brassicas in the new space available.

I understand your problem, though. When I started gardening, I had no inkling how many brassica plants we would get through in a year.

[mumofstig]

Is it just a case of realising that on a small plot you will not be able to grow all that you would like, of any particular crop, in the space available

[redwine@roses]

Thanks for all your advice,in reply to Zazen i have not got a problem yet its my first year and i seem to have brassicas everywhere,i'mthinking to next year Momostig proberly has the right idea you cant win them all,thanks again,red

[Kristen]

Joy Larkcom ("Grow your own vegetables") has a "Value for Space Rating" - that sort of scoring system might be a handy metric for a veg patch that does not allow growing "all you could possibly want"?!

Coupled with "weeks to maturity" perhaps? with a dose of "I particularly like ..." thrown in for some consumer-satisfaction too

[Livinhope]

I don't know the size of our plot but would estimate about 20 foot by 40 and we have managed to grow the following:
Potatoes, green beans, beetroot, radishes (4 lots), runner beans, sweetcorn, 4 rows peas, lettuce,(2 lots) brussels, purple sprouting, curly kale, winnigstadt, cauliflower, carrots, parsnips, chard, spinach, broad beans, spring cabbage, savoys, leeks, marrows and cucumbers, spring onions, big onions and 6 dahlias.  Then there's the rhubarb and the comfrey.  It's not all completely dug either but we are going to owe the soil some good compost and manure.
I know I'm boring but we are so pleased with what we've achieved in 9 months.

[Shop Keep]

My garden is only about 20 foot square, and divided into 4 plots.

Plot 1 – Charlotte potatoes
Plot 2 – Runner beans, broad beans & Sugarsnap peas
Plot 3 – Sprouts, cabbage & radish
Plot 4 – Carrots, parsnips, beetroot & onions.

So far most things are growing OK.

The leeks are now going in as the potatoes are coming out – I think its called hot bunking in the navy -  should I put the spring cabbage in where the summer cabbage come out or put them in after the beans are done and dusted?

[Livinhope]

Yes it is hot bunking.  It's amazing what you can get from a small area if you work at it.