[al78]

I have a four year rotation on my plot of the form leeks -> potatoes -> French beans -> brassicas.

One issue I am having is the different areas needed for each crop family. I use two or three beds for potatoes, one bed for beans, one or two beds for leeks, one bed for gem squash (I put that in with the leeks for rotation purposes), and four beds for brassicas. The brassicas therefore take up much more space, because I want to be able to sow successionally and want to grow varieties that are ready during summer/autumn, and varieties that are ready over winter and into the following year (e.g. kale, PSB, spring cabbage). How do others fit the awkward partially offset growing season of brassicas and the different size area with their other crop families when rotating? 

[Goosegirl]

Could you put leeks with your brassicas as they both like a goodly amount of nitrogen.

[mumofstig]

Each bed could go through a rotation, but start at a different crop, to fill them how you want.
 A long as you don't follow a veg group with exactly the same thing in the next year, that's ok for rotation.
Beans don't really add much to the soil, in reality so they are not important in the scheme of things either.
Don't forget that squash and beans can go in after spring cabbage is harvested, and leeks can go in after early potatoes are lifted - so you can get a rotation going in each bed - rather than over the whole plot

[al78]

Could you put leeks with your brassicas as they both like a goodly amount of nitrogen.

Yes, although I'm not sure that solves the dilemma. The issue is that around 40% of the plot is growing brassicas, and the crops which follows brassicas are leeks and squash, but they only require half the space, so what do I plant in the other half? Similar problem with beans only taking up one bed, where do I put the four beds of brassicas following the beans? It seems that crop rotation works well if you use the same space for each crop family, which I don't.

I'm wondering if a rethink of the rotation is required. Grow first early, second early and maincrop potatoes, that will be three beds. Plant leeks in the potato bed when the first earlies have been dug (June). Plant climbing beans and squash together over two or three beds. This will reduce the space differential between plant groups and be more space efficient.

If I could add carrots to the beans/squash group that might equalise the area required for each group, but I cannot get carrots to grow when sown directly into the ground. I am on heavy clay, and when I sow seed I don't even get any seedlings. I managed to get a crop when I sowed in the greenhouse raised bed last February.

[mumofstig]

My point is that you don't HAVE to follow the cabbage family with leeks or squash. As long as you don't follow cabbages with more cabbages, it'll be fine. 

[bobbyt]

Don't know if this will help, but I've set my plot out into 4 distinct areas, basically I have 2 beds each approx 10 x 3 metres. I just found it easier to split into 4 x 5 metre areas (see attached plan - hope it works ). The brassicas top right, legumes top left with sweetcorn tomatoes and cucumber, then root veg and anything else bottom left, then spuds. It's a handy tool to use, even with irregular shape plots, and multiple beds. It will also warn you if you try and put things out of rotation.

Unfortunately with the freebie plan there are no plant labels on the plan, you can only see that on the laptop when you click on them.

[rowlandwells]

`I tend to agree with the reply from Mum and I have to say I am one for sticking to crop rotation I think its a very important part of vegetable growing as rule of thumb

it was drummed into me when i was learning how to garden by my late father in law in his opinion the benefits of rotation where very beneficial to achieve good results for veg growers

I always stick ridged to my yearly garden plan that also incorporates the manure rotation for each plot a manual plan that seems to work

[al78]

My point is that you don't HAVE to follow the cabbage family with leeks or squash. As long as you don't follow cabbages with more cabbages, it'll be fine. 

I see, so what you are suggesting is a more flexible rotation whereby when a bed has been cleared, it is replanted with crops from a different family, so I could do something like early potatoes -> leeks -> brassicas -> a non-brassica and keep doing this as and when a crop is harvested. I like the sound of that, as it sounds easier to keep beds continuously productive with crops which is more space efficient, as long as I note what I have harvested from any one bed so I don't refill it with the same family.

Is the following beans with brassicas because of the nitrogen addition to the soil thing an old wives tale?

[New shoot]

I see, so what you are suggesting is a more flexible rotation whereby when a bed has been cleared, it is replanted with crops from a different family, so I could do something like early potatoes -> leeks -> brassicas -> a non-brassica and keep doing this as and when a crop is harvested. I like the sound of that, as it sounds easier to keep beds continuously productive with crops which is more space efficient, as long as I note what I have harvested from any one bed so I don't refill it with the same family.

Is the following beans with brassicas because of the nitrogen addition to the soil thing an old wives tale?

That is how I rotate crops on my plot.  It is not divided into beds, but I move stuff around in each area and make sure I follow on with an unrelated crop.

The legumes and nitrogen theory works if you sow them as green manure, but if you are growing them as a crop, they use the nitrogen they have stored on their roots to form the crop and there is little left to do any good to the soil.  I usually just pull up the remains and compost them.  They are a different family though, so can work as a useful break between other crops you are rotating. 

Edit as just remembered where I saw this guide to green manures.  Very useful for planning what to use and where.

https://www.sowseeds.co.uk/pages/choosing-the-right-green-manure

[mumofstig]

I see, so what you are suggesting is a more flexible rotation whereby when a bed has been cleared, it is replanted with crops from a different family, so I could do something like early potatoes -> leeks -> brassicas -> a non-brassica and keep doing this as and when a crop is harvested.

Yes, as NS confirmed
You may need to add some fertiliser (I'm a fan of a little fish, blood and bone and of course chicken manure pellets for the brassicas) to keep the soil well fed.

[al78]

I see, so what you are suggesting is a more flexible rotation whereby when a bed has been cleared, it is replanted with crops from a different family, so I could do something like early potatoes -> leeks -> brassicas -> a non-brassica and keep doing this as and when a crop is harvested.

Yes, as NS confirmed
You may need to add some fertiliser (I'm a fan of a little fish, blood and bone and of course chicken manure pellets for the brassicas) to keep the soil well fed.

Yes, I appreciate I will have to add some fertaliser occasionally if I'm immediately following a crop with another. It takes a lot out of the soil, so I have to put something back. I suppose it wouldn't do any harm to occasionally sow a legume green manure with rye to dig in to boost fertility. I might try intercropping clover with brassicas to try and give the soil a nitrogen boost.

I'm glad someone mentioned leeks are nitrogen hungry, I hadn't realised that. It could be why my leeks flopped this year, I'll know now to add something like chicken manure pellets before I plant leeks this coming season.