Allotment Gardening Advice Help Chat
Growing => Grow Your Own => Topic started by: Mr Bean on July 27, 2008, 22:52
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My daughter decided that she would like an allotment and I agreed to help her. We've been quite successful and are reaping the rewards now except for one thing. The allotments are teeming with rats. Early risers talk about seeing up to 100 over the field.
The broad beans went in virtually a single night once they found them. I made some poly tunnels and we have tomatoes ripening but as soon as they go red the rats have them and I don't fancy them anyway after that. We never had a single strawberry despite netting them.
The whole area's like the wild west with gun touting allotmenteers heading for a shoot out.
We've complained to the allotment association but what they intend doing I'm not sure.
Does anyone know what the allotment associations responsibilities are in this area.
Any advice on how to handle this would be welcome.
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the council are the people to contact regarding rats, they are duty bound to act straight away and if the numbers are as high as you say then it seems to be a major problem :shock:
URRGGGHHH
shudder :evil:
good luck i am glad they are not that bad on my plot :wink:
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on my fathers allotment all the plot holders have a poison bait station or more.....team effort and it works, once the rats appear they dont last long if the stations are kept 'topped up'. shooting them is no good with that many.
ask bodger hes the expert (although there are others but cant remember who)
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Ugh, i wouldn't eat anything a rat could of piddled on. Weils disease and all that.
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good point mike, important fact about rats and mice- they have no sphincter muscle and a weak bladder so they are constantly dropping stools and urine wherever they go
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Funnily enough, I bought some of the green plastic bait stations from Mole Valley Farmers in Devon only last week. They were only about four pounds each and are an extremely safe way of putting poison bait down.
Having said that, if you have the number of rats you say you have, its going to cost you an arm and a leg in rat poison to get them under control and as somone has already said, its surely upto the council to get things sorted.
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Mr Bean, your not on Scott Road allotment are you?????
I have many rat friends up there too!!!!!!!! :)
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Thanks for your replies everyone.
Yes deezkatz I am. We started in the Spring and it took a while for the penny to drop about the rats.
I'm not 100% sure about the responsibilities of the council. I'm not an expert but I've been told you have to pay for the service. That's something I have to look into. Not that I would mind paying my share if I thought it would help.
My own opinion is that the only way to control vermin is to keep the site clean. Get rid of all the dilapidated buildings. Get people off the unused plots, clean up the piles of rubbish, (it's not a dump) and keep it tidy. There's supposed to be a waiting list as long as your arm so there's no need loose any income. The responsibility for this lies squarely on the shoulders of the management. They have clearly been too weak and nothing will change unless they start sorting things out.
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if there is an infestation ( which no doubt it is) call the enviroment health and they should send someone to investigate.stress the point that there are hundreds and not just the odd lone ranger.i`m sure they are legally bound to clear the problem at no cost to u, public health etc
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I spoke to our main guy today (I'm also on the same allotment as Mr Bean) as I sent him an email last night.
He came round and said that the council were there last week, and they are coming back tomorrow (weds) to check if the bait is working.
Russel has also put more poison down too.
Although he said he popped up there today to check everything and there are quite a few people up there with chickens, but one person feeds them out of a dog bowl! so there was 3 rats chomping on the food whilst he was up there, so I suggested he needs to speak to the chicken people! and set more guidelines if they want to keep the chickens!!
although i saw my friend today (my dear sweet rat cat i've named him) !!! lol x
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the chicken feed is ur problem and until that is addressed u will always have rats cos cereal crops are their fav food....
if u do a bit of research on the net u can educate urself well about rats and their behaviour - know your enemy, understand his tactics and u will easily defeat him - as the saying goes, dont think it applies to rats tho , very clever they are :roll:
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I was on my plot tonight and one of the chicken people took the bait out of the pipe on their plot and moved it to a shed. "Incase somebody's dog ate it"! Unbelievable.
I'm still trying to get to the bottom of whether any public body is obliged to act in a case of rat infestation, and unless anyone knows different it appears to be that they're not obliged to do anything. The Environmental Health section of the council have a service for getting rid of rats but you have to pay for it. I'll keep you posted on that one if I get any result.
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if i were u i`d go to citizens advice to see exactly where u stand, if the council wont do anything tell the local paper - shame them into action!
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Mr Bean & Deezkatz,
Northampton Council advise that 'Rats . . . . should be destroyed by a pest controller for which there is no charge to domestic premises. There is a concessionary charge for charities and voluntary organisations'.
You may get lucky and find a kind-hearted soul at the Council who will classify your allotments as an extension of your domestic premises.
Phone number for enquiries: 01604 838000
More information NORTHAMPTON COUNCIL WEBSITE (http://www.northampton.gov.uk/site/scripts/documents_info.php?documentID=253&pageNumber=1)
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Thank you WirralWally but we are in Kettering and I can't get anything out of the council here other than we have to pay for the pest controller to visit which is what the allotment association are now doing.
I doubt if it will be very successful without a thorough tidy up of all the plots and re location of the chickens.
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Hi Mr Bean
Have you told Russell about the bait been moved!
I dont think he'd be too happy, he explained to me that the whole reason the bait is in the drain pipes is so no dogs or birds etc can get to it!
Doubt he'll be happy with that!
I'm not after reading that!
If they fed their chickens properly they wouldnt have half the problem were having now!
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Yes I've mailed Russell. When I went up last night a new pipe had been placed on the side of the track which I assume is a replacement for the pipe that was on the chicken plot.
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For anyone who's interested this is the reply I got from the council.
"In relation to your query, regarding Scott Road Allotments and issues
with vermin, I can confirm that the matter is the responsibility of the
Allotment Association, as per the lease agreement. They have been made
aware of this concern and have been given the contact details of
Kettering Borough Council's Environmental Health Dept, Pest Control.
(Tel 01536 410333). An alternative would be to contact a local private
firm, who maybe able to offer the required service."
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I might be a bit late on this but in Northern Ireland, at least, legislation firmly places the responsibility of destruction on the owner of the property that the rat or mouse is occupying. Essentially the rat becomes your property and responsibility. The only thing the local authority is duty bound to do is investigate any public heath hazard which may be attracting the rats and can issue orders to deal with it. As you can expect, a lot of people aren't happy when they are told this. My local council doesn't even provide a pest control service.
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Thank you Bob. I'm sure the situation is very similar to here in England. The rats are on the property of the Allotment Association and provided they don't present a health threat to the general public it's the responsibility of the Allotment Association to deal with it and to bear the cost. I don't have a problem with that, but never having had to deal with a situation like this before I needed to get to the bottom of where the responsibility lay.
Ultimately the council could put pressure on the Association to deal with it as there must be clauses in the lease which address this sort of thing.
To be fair to the Allotment Association they are now doing their bit to try and resolve it, and ultimately the allotment holders are the Association so we can't duck out of it we've got to pull together and sort it out.
It can be done but it means upsetting a lot of people with run down plots, dilapidated sheds, piles of old materials etc, and of course the keeping of birds and I'm not sure the will is there yet to sort that out.
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From my experience each council interprets their responsibility to deal with rats differently so whereas one council may act quickly, efficiently and continually to stem the problems others will feel it's not high on their list of priorities (like their legal requirement to remove ragwort but that's another story and don't get me started on that!).
We have a rat problem as we also keep horses and our tack room/hay store is like heaven to them - they've even chewed through plastic fee bins and leather riding boots. I've found that they're resistant to quite a few of the poisons on the market so I've now resorted to borrowing a friend's terrier who makes short work of them. A live animal trap is another possibility - when you've caught them in the trap, dump the whole thing in a barrel of water and leave it for an hour or so.
If you don't fancy dealing with a trap with a live rat in it, the traditional sprung loaded traps do work although rats can be extremely crafty about removing the bait without releasing the spring. Put chocolate or toffee as the bait. The latter is particularly good as rats love the sugary tast but have to pull quite hard to get it off the trap which in turn gives a better chance of the spring being released for the trap to go off.
PS. Don't ever get into conversation with a professional rat catcher as they seem to be able to talk for England on the subject of rats!
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Thank you for that Novice. It sounds as if you've had a belly full of them. The situation here seems to have stabilised somewhat. I haven't seen any likely Rat damage since the bait was put down though those with guns say they are still shooting them. I don't fancy trapping the blighters so I'm going to set some bait of my own when the rat catcher has finished. I shall put it in a pipe as he does so that other animals can't get it. I'm also going to keep it tidy around the plot to try and deny them any cover or hiding places like under my shed and around the compost heap.
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I'm putting this in a seperate message as I've had all sorts of conversations about rat poison with various people and I want to try and put right what seems to be a general misconception. Feel free to correct me if anyone has superior knowledge.
As far as I know rat bait is all Warfarin. (If it says anti coagulant on the tin it's Warfarin) I know a bit about Warfarin as I take about 6mg a day myself and they explain it to you at the hospital before you start taking it. It's not actually a poison at all, it's a chemical that thins your blood by suppressing vitamin K which is the clotting agent. What thins my blood a little would kill a rat, or any small mammal (or a dog because they would scoff the lot) The beauty of it is they can never become immune to it. They can of course choose not to eat it, and perhaps some rats just don't fancy the taste, though mostly they lap it up and die later.
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Mr Bean. You're correct in saying that 'rat poison' isn't 'poison' in the normal sense in that it's actually an anti-coagulant.
However, it is has been found that some rats are becoming immune to what is known as 'first generation anticoagulants' (crafty blighters) and so new 'second generation' anticoagulants are now being designed - Bromodiolone is one of the latter and is now what is used in Rentokil rat bait as opposed to Warfarin which is 'first generation'. Difenacoum is another anitcoagulant that's used for bait - it's the one in Neosorexa Gold. I think very few actually use warfarin.
Sorry - as you can see I'm becoming quite an expert on rat baits - almost as bad a professional rat catcher!
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gotta add this ,, poultry keepers are not just to blame bad husbandry of any animal is also all gardens have compost bins and these are the main problem as far as accomodation for rats is concerned. rats would rather sleep in a compost bin than under a shed as it is natuarly warmer .bait stations all around the allotments and under sheds in properly constructed tunnels is the right approach to thier extermination ( se rat tunnel in search facility )traps have thier uses but rats ( unless its tv programme where they show rats on the surface for shock value) will die underground as all animals .including humans seek out quiet and comfort to die in warfarin works by thinning the rats blood to such an extent that if the animal gets a bruise or other problem the wound /liver will continue to bleed till its death internally any smal blood vessel can be affected by it .so if you want to rid the place of them .. pay out for rat bait .construct proper baiting stations . check traps reguarly for those victims and clear them away using a carrier bag to lift them turn this inside out with the rat inside and burn or dispose of properly ..
note . under legislation you have to check traps both morning and night to make sure no animal is suffering this includes rats or you can be prosecuted .. also traps can and do catch stoats and other animnals unless set correctly ,.on an allotment you have no rights to allow you to trap stoats or weasels unless they are attacking livestock.
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Thanks for your comments.
I'd hardly given rats a thought before but now I've just spent an evening trawling the internet learning about them! It's a bit worrying really.
I've taken what you've said on board and now I've got to keep my patch as clear as possible, and hope others do the same. I've had no more rat damage so fingers crossed they've been cut back a fair bit.
Good luck with your rats Novice.
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I'm afraid rats will be an on going problem which will never be solved. Talk about breeding like rabbits, rats are even worse. I seem to remember hearing somewhere about them being pregnant with one batch and can then become pregnant with another litter before even giving birth!
Of course all this wet weather has pushed them out of ditches, drains etc and onto higher ground ie allotments, gardens, fields.
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Hi
On the topic of rats (again) I am a new and enthusiastic domestic vegetable grower living in the city and growing in my back garden. However, we have a large problem with rats and have tried the usual green wheat based poison pellets. What are peoples opinions of the electrical devices - both the high pitched plug in kind and also the stand alone battery operated ones that electrocute the horrible varmints .....?????
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Ugh!
Personally I wouldn't want to keep my chooks where there are so many rats! Aside from all the really nasty stuff, they take and eat eggs!
Part of the problem on your site is the feeding 'ad lib' that is so popular these days! ("Oh poor chooks, I couldn't leave them without food for the rest of the day.") Instead of measuring out and giving them only what they can eat in a few minutes, with a top up feed before bed time. Even a laying hen only needs about 4 oz a day.
One of my chicken keeping friends only feeds hers once a day and they are all healthy and lay well.
Peoples attitudes can be very hard to change though, and I think you are unlikely to get them to stop putting out excess feed. :(