[Trillium]

True, WG, but it can be worked and made arable. I eventually got mine into shape as it was all I had and couldn't afford to rent any place else. And with young kiddies at home, it's hard for mums to get away to a lotty.

And for whoever, that wasn't a naughty word I used. Unless it's one in the UK  

[pookey]

Are you comfortable with the comfrey idea then?   With or without the chooks.  Despite what you may have heard, comfrey is pretty easy to kill off when you are ready to extend your veggie plot into the paddock.  (Simply put under a polythene or Teram mulch for a whole season).

i certernally do - I like the simplicity, let mother Nature do the work, it wont give me imediate results but for land thats not in use - it's fab.  Would I need to plough first?

[Annie]

Our Clay is thick red stuff that can be dug out in blocks with v little topsoil in places.We now finally have raised beds with manure and compost added.The main problem before we raised beds and now is the hard panning of soil,if I sow in little trenches filled with compost the shoots can get up and the roots will fight their way into the clay.
 Incase you doubt me the raised bed at the top of the slope has got moss growing in it.It`s been v wet here and this despite manure and compost and sand .this is also where the origional top soil was thinest,yet potatoes did well there last year and the autumn sown garlic is thriving.

[WG.]

Would I need to plough first?

No, although richie could be onto something with the pan theory.  Also, I recall you were concerned about the partial shading.  Again comfrey should do fine altho 2 to 3 acres is a HELLUVA LOT of comfrey.

Try a test square of 40 plants or so at 24" centres - reckon on it staying there for 10 years or more.  Kill the grass however you choose - weedkiller (ouch, before planting), or a 4-6" manure mulch (after planting).  Prepare a pocket for each comfrey plant - can be pretty rough but anything to get a little air into the soil will help.   Sharp sand and/or gypsum is good but not essential.   Try to borrow a spike or a pinch bar and drive it a foot or more into the soil to break up any pan.   If the hole it makes fills with water then don't bother.

Plant your comfrey and wait a year.  You might be able to take a very light cut in year 1 if it thrives particularly well.

So you still need to befriend your farmer neighbours 'cos you want dung of all kinds.  Comfrey is happy with fresh dung - even chicken and pigeon dung which no-one else wants.   Horse and cow dung are best 'cos they'll have lots of straw in.   If the horse dung has sawdust or wood shavings then this is okay if you do not dig it in.

[richyrich7]

Fair enough richyrich7 / Trillium but if Pookey's description of the clay soil is accurate, then it will be of more interest to a potter than to a farmer.

 

[John]

Comfrey is supposed to be good feed for chickens according to L D Hills. Clay soils are hard work but supposed to be worth it. If the field slopes just dig some small trenches and a fair amount will drain away. Our site is very wet but these trenches seem to work really well.

[pookey]

Thanks everyone, I have a few things to work on here!  I think I will try a foot high bed on the concrete to get some bits planted now, then I am going to try and make a little patch on my clay, and comfrey a section, I certernally am not going to tackle the full 2 acres!  Maybe I could chuck down a few palates so I can walk on it.

HERES A PIC OF SOME OF THE CLAY AREA I WANT TO WORK - IF IT HELPS, (IT SLOPES IN BOTH DIRECTIONS, DOWN AND ACCROSS)



I also wanted to get a little orchard going, how would I plant trees in this clay soil or would it be a waste of the trees?  I suppose I could plant them in the garden bit with the better soil and drainage.

The garden is the least feasible area for me to work as there is no fence on it and the kids could get on to the road (or the cattle grid that Im always falling down!  I fell down the one at my doctors when I was 8 months pregnant! - dangerous darn things! but then again theres always an escaped cow round here, not sure why the doctors need one though, maybe a lot of sick cows make the treck into the town!).  Still, the trees would only need pruning from time to time so could keep them down at the bottom of the garden.

hERES A PIC OF THE GARDEN



I am keen to work the field as I have a fenced off play area right next to it for the kiddies, so I could potter about my patch and keep an eye on them.

[muntjac]

take the area you have in mind for your garden plot and then looking at it sat on ur heels look to see where a natural slope goes .now is there anywhere you can lead water away to such as a ditch. now  with the plough  run a single furrow to the lowest point in the garden . you can dig a trench or set of trenches going across the plot in a straight line if you cannot get the plough. lets say you decide on a rectangle for the layout of your plot . now if it was 30 yds long and 5 yds wide .you could run 3 trenches across the plot from right to left  and finally take a single trench down the right hand side to where the lowest point or ditch is . fill this ditch with builders gravel this then will form what is known as a french drain. now preserving this drain  dig or rotavate the plot within these  trenches leaving maybe a foot iether side . now with added manure ( a couple of barrow loads to the sq yaror so and  deep rotavating you can get the clay broken down . add 10 oz of slaked lime  to the soil before rotavating as well this will help even more to break it down . if you want to at this time you can also add a few tons of pea gravel £14 ton in england .spread this around the plot a few shovel fulls to a sq  yard . rotavate and add more manure and then rotavate it again . the motion of rotavating over a couple of days a week or so apart will give the lime and all the other additions time to act . you wont be able to plant potatos on the areas you have put lime on so maybe you should keep a couple of yards on one end free from the liming .and you can do that next year,  this whole process,  if you have the " ingrediants " at hand .  you have manure from the farmer and a rear mounted rotavator of the farmers    ,or a rotavator from a hire shop and the labour and baby sitter .you can be looking at planting out within a month and i believe that will still give you a great start

[GrannieAnnie]

My chooks like comfrey, in fact there's not much they don't like!!!!!

[richyrich7]

My chooks like comfrey, in fact there's not much they don't like!!!!!

Mmm perhaps it was not the comfrey then grannieannie, thanks I'll try feeding them it again.

[WG.]

Mmm perhaps it was not the comfrey then grannieannie, thanks I'll try feeding them it again.

Lawrence Hills' book suggests hanging up cut comfrey so that the birds have to reach for it.  This would also ensure it wilts.

[Annie]

I can`t think of any reason not to plant apple tree,if  you prepare the planting hole properly they should thrive.

[pookey]

thanks muntjac for all that info, youre a very helpful guy.  The trenches are clever< if i stick to the raised beds idea< would i make trenches around each bed (1.2METRES WIDE) say each side of the paths>

[pookey]

I am so excited, I have found my patch.  After the dissapointment of the field needing so much work, I went out in the rain today with a spade and started to test parts of the garden.  Theres a small patch of grass Ive found, and it is workable now - no waterlogging (its sloped) and the soil is clay but it crumbled well and looked rather rich!  Loads of worms in it!  There were some big tall single stem brown weed things, they looked dead and dried with brown bobbly clusters on the top, and I dug them out, but theres some good top soil on it!

I was planning on spraying killer on it and rotavating it.  but I've put on another post named - 'deep root tree stump and weedkiller', theres some pictures of it too.

I would love to hear anyones opinions especially Muntjacs, as I've had some fab advice on this board which has got me raring to start growing!!

[muntjac]

take my advice for somethings but take notice of what everyone says ,i am not an expertt by any means and i never will be .i have done loads wrong so please use the wide knowledge base we have here .



now the brown knobbly things sound like suspicously like ragwort . dig it all up and watch for it growing again .dont let it seed .it is a yellow flowered plant/weed and is poisonous to stock especially horses and u have a legal requirment to eradicate it ... i would get some roundup and  have it applied to the grass etc after the bad weather and then wait for 3 weeks to see it all go brown and dry then rotavate it over ,you can plant the nex day if you wish .