[ceri green]

Hi, I have 2 warrens.... I understand they are a hybrid between RIR and Light Sussex. My question is.... are all hybrids such as warrens first crosses, or do hybrids breed hybrids? and if the former, does that mean that  a cross between a warren hen and cockerel could produce a pure bred RIR or Light Sussex? ( 1 in 4 chance from what I remember of doing genetics at school)??

[azubah]

Firstly no question is daft. It's daft not to ask!

I am no expert on genetics, but I think that you would get a mixture of the available genes. The more RIR genes present the more the young would inherit, but you would not get a pure RIR, only a mixture.

[Bodger]

The breeders would never admit to them being a straight cross between a Rhode Island Red and a Light Sussex. In truth they would be quite right to deny this. The company that has perfected the Warrens will almost certainly keep two pure bred flocks of parent birds but although the parent birds may look similar to the two breeds mentioned they will have been very much improved by a very scientific and methodical selection process. In other words, if you and I were to cross a Rhodey with a Sussex, the resulting birds would be good, but nowhere near good as Warrens.
For the reasons I've just mentioned, your genetic experiment would not work. The parent birds may very well have had little bits and bobs added to them.

[richyrich7]

I've got RIRxLS and I've had Warrens.
 Warrens where smaller than my crosses and a bit friendlier.

[Aunt Sally]

It's a bit like making a cake.  Mix the ingredients together and you can't separate them again.  

There are so many genes involved they would never sort themselves out again.  The examples you are thinking of Ceri are things like eye colour that they teach you at school.

[ceri green]

Thanks everyone! So......the crossing is historical? My warrens will have been bred from other Warrens and presumably that goes for other established hybrids too?
Also I did wonder about the size richy cos both my pure RIR and LS are bigger than my warrens but much younger!

[Bodger]

No Ceri  Warrens crossed with Warrens will not produce Warrens.

They are a straight cross between two totally different breeds or strains of birds. This is why I mentioned the two flocks of parent birds that the Warren people keep.
The reason that every Tom Dick and harry can't breed them is because the breeders keep these parent birds under lock and key. When we purchase Warrens, we are buying the end product and they do not breed on. They'll produce chicks of course but they will not have the attributes or possibly even the appearance of Warrens

[GrannieAnnie]

I agree with Bodger and the others, in this day of science and genetics. We will never be able to produce an identical bird to a warren or other hybrid.

Basically, my Amberlinks are a LS cockerel bred with a RIR hen, that's why they are mainly white. However, out of last year's first flock of Amberlinks I've got one still living here because she doesn't lay eggs (Rosie) and she has yellow legs.  Amberlinks don't have yellow legs, they are usually very pale pinky flesh coloured legs.  Mind you, Rosie could be another breed who's egg got mixed up in the hatchery.  

But then with this flock of amberlinks I've got now, quite a few of them had BLUE legs which I was worried about, but Bodger and some of the others eased my mind by saying that it could be a gentic link back to other birds that have been crossed.

It's all beyond me, but have a look at the Hendrix genetics website if you are interested, as they own the parent stocks of most of the hybrid breeds now.

http://www.hendrix-poultry.nl/    and look under products, it shows you a lot of info on the breeds they have

[Bodger]

Thats an interesting site Annie.