[rowlandwells]

did you see on the television last night I think it was BBC Panarama on milk production it takes a lot to move me but that certainly did when I seen those poor cows kicked and beaten when they where down on the floor unable to stand up and then moved by a tractor loader with straps round its guts and dragged through the muck round the yard

the same with the other cow that was so sick it just laid there in pain for many hours till it was finally put down I believe it was a farm down in Wales where this was happening and when this was brought to light they made all the excuses under the sun to save there own necks

and to boot they where a member of the red tractor club that begs belief if i was them I would keep a close eye on the farm because you never know who mite be calling on them in the near future

I have to say I am a meat eater but I believe all animals should have a decent life and the welfare of which should come into play for this to happen and any farmer not complying with this should for me be closed down asap

I've said this before I have no time for DEFRA  there a complete waste of tax payers money and should be under investigation what they actually for the fee paying tax payer  because its obvious they really need to get a grip on such goings on so far as animal welfare is concerned as most consumers who buy meat or milk  and do believe animal welfare is paramount

 any program like the one last night tends to tar all the farmer with the same brush which is absolutely not the case I believe any good farmer would condemn such goings on there is absolutely no rime or reason to treat defenceless animals like that and and those concerned with this brutality should be looking at being a guest of HMP that's only my opinion

so if any of you out there seen this prog I would welcome you views on this and what you thought about the treatment of those poor cows

[John]

I didn't see it but I heard about it. I'm afraid there are always bad apples in the barrel and they should be prosecuted, punished and banned from working with or keeping animals for life.
I've seen farmers out in blizzards around here, desperately searching for sheep under the snow and rescuing them.
I'm not excusing this but the BBC seems to be pushing a vegan agenda which this fits well.

[salixer]

From rowlandwells' description, I'm glad I didn't see it.  Personally I do not put much score on a Red Tractor mark:  I have picked up a lack of trust in empathy for the mark through various reports and detractors over time.  (In other words, the Red Tractor mark does not persuade me to buy the produce compared to non-marked produce.)
Of course, as John says, there are bad apples in any barrel (and under any quality mark), but I do believe that any registration organisation offering a supposed guarantee of quality/behaviour from their members needs to be very very active on the ground with frequent random visits without notice.  If that means higher costs for membership so be it;  plus consumers will be ever more confident and will likely be prepared to pay a few extra pennies per lb (just under half a kilo for younger forum members) for their produce me thinks !
Also as John has remarked, I know full well that the vast majority of live-stock farmers care for the well-being of their animals despite the fact that they will, one day, decide to send them off for slaughter. Keeping livestock healthy and contented is not only about achieving maximum price for their meat !

[And, yes, I eat meat - and absolutely loads of veg' also - with no intention of going veggie or vegan.]

[rowlandwells]

thank you both for your replies very true and down to earth replies these type of replies restore my faith in human nature RW

[AlaninCarlisle]

I watched the first few minutes, found it too upsetting so turned it off

[John]

Sadly the BBC featured a terrible farm and their independent expert turns out to be vegan campaigner. I'm old enough to remember when you could trust the BBC to not distort facts to suit their agenda.

[Growster...]

We never watch anything they do nowadays, and rely on superb DVDs from the days of yore, when they used to do real humour, serious and interesting programmes, and enthralled us British citizens with decent comedy and truthful news.

I wouldn't trust the BBC to make any similar programmes nowadays, they've lost the plot!

[rowlandwells]

I take your point's regarding the BBC however I do believe that's what actually happened at that farm and I'm not trying to defend the BBC in anyway as i tend to agree with what they get up to these days as most of its dribble to me especially the news that I tend not to watch either the BBC or ITV

but vegan or not its the treatment of all animals that I'm more  concerned with not the way others choose to live that's up to them I'm not a vegan or vegetarian I like my meat dishes but I do believe every animal that goes into the food chain deserves to be treated within the scope  of animal welfare and not hit with a spade or sticks or dragged away with a tractor or left to suffer until someone decides to end its suffering we should pride ourselves in this country of being country of animal lovers but I'm afraid   this sort of thing does bring into play the need to uphold the welfare of all animals?

[John]

I've no doubt that is what happened at that farm. Shocking, upsetting and makes any decent person angry. However, it's the surrounding BBC narrative that gets me. The vast majority of farmers, especially family farms, do their best to have healthy and happy animals. If nothing else, it makes economic sense.

[New shoot]

I didn't watch the programme but if they have footage of animal abuse, I would totally agree that those involved should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.  There is no excuse for behaviour like that and anyone capable of it should be banned from having livestock forever in my view.

But as John says, and it is a big but, the fuss rightly being kicked up over this is being diluted and devalued by the one-sided view and distortion the BBC chose to allow to be broadcast.   Its is a common fault of their these days and why a lot of people just are not watching anymore.  Once you lose the respect of the viewing public and they start doubting your honesty, you are on a very slippery slope.

I hope that the footage stands up for itself and there is some action taken despite all that.

[rowlandwells]

good replies I just hope this prog is being told as true facts of what actually happened at that farm its going to be interesting to see if action is taken against the people concerned and indeed the companies that deal with this farm unfortunately only time will tell but as said good replies from all