[Steph]

Hi,

Ive had all these wonderful ideas about growing lots of healthy organic fruits and veg (as you can tell Im a complete novice), and Ive come to the first hurdle before Ive even planted anything 

The look on my husbands (Chris) face a minute ago, when I mentioned the fact we had loads and loads of raspberry cane roots to dig out tommorrow or they may come back up through the weed suppressent matting, was of absolute disgust.  (for the last few years the back garden was completely neglected, and the raspberries, bindweed, nettles and brambles took over.)  Weve had a mini digger and driver come in and clear it all, but thats only above ground, so I would guess there are still loads of roots underneath.

Anyway, Chriss first comment was "isnt there a bottle of something we can just pour over it all to stop them coming back?"  When I said I wanted to grow organic, his comments were along the lines of "no point ignoring modern technology if it can help".  But to be honest my other main concern about pouring stuff all over the ground is that it may kill my fruit trees when they arrive, and pollute the water table and kill creatures Id rather have around (including the frogs and toads from next doors pond).  I think this is going to be an uphill struggle . . .

So, what I really wanted to know is: Is there anything, mechanical or chemical which any of you would use to help clear the ground if it were your land?  Or is it just a case of me turning over the lot with a fork and a rake and trying to pull out all the roots by hand?

Would a rotivator help? or just produce more raspberry canes and convolvulous?  I guess Im panicking a bit trying to get everything done at once, because I know that I should already have planted some things already  and I suppose it doesnt really matter if I have 2 types of carrots rather than 5.  But I just want to feel a bit in control with my new plans, rather than the way I feel at the moment, which is more along the lines of "running around like a headless chicken". (apologies to the poultry forum )

I picked up the big chop saw from my Mothers house today with the intention of starting to make the raised beds, but rain spoiled play    so thats another thing on the list to do tommorrow.  Meanwhile my younger daughter thinks Im a mean Mummy, because I refused to go out with a torch tonight and plant Ixia bulbs in the dark  and drizzle with her.  The front garden is yet another story. . . (I will try find the camera tommorrow so I can show you what I mean)

Thanks in advance for any help/advice

Steph

[woodburner]

I am anti chemicals, and while I am not so anti rotivator, I don't think they are half as good as they are supposed to be. (Actually I think that of glyphosate too.)
I've never dealt with overgrown raspberries, but I know you can't rotivate bramble roots, and even if you glyphosate them you still need to get the roots out.
My limited experience of glyphosate is that for really pernicious perennial weeds, one application is not enough, so as you need to dig the raspberry roots out anyway, just pick out the convolvulous roots as you go.

[andreadon]

i probably wouldn't use weed killer all over it - unless you use something like glysophate: which kills the plant roots via the leaves - but if you've not got leaves it won't do anything.


a rotivator will turn over the ground but it will break up the roots - not sure how that would affect the raspberries, but it will spread the convulvus.
if you dig over the ground with the fork you will find the canes easier to pull out.
with the convulvus, i'd be tempted to wait until it comes up and pull it all out in one go.
(it will self-seed when it's time, but when it's growing it just spreads everywhere from one common stem)
in conclusion - dig with fork, pull out.

oh woodburner - your post was quicker than mine!!

[Steph]

Thanks for your replys.

Its as I guessed then, the fork, the hand pulling of roots, and they lying in bed Sunday morning complaining of a back ache and not wanting to get up.  Why do people pay good money to go to the gym I wonder, when they could come dig my garden for free? 

Oh well I guess it will all be worth it in the end, although Im not sure Chris will agree with that statement

[andreadon]

it'll be fine.

re: the backache - bend your knees and spread your legs further apart than you think you need to - then make sure you're using your stomach muscles to move the fork.
and don't turn around from the waist up (when you twist the fork over) cos that's a short cut to pain!

[Stripey_cat]

As he said ^^

Can you try to get a half-hour done each day (maybe in the evenings if there's still light)?  You'll get less tired and overworked, and your muscles will have a chance to build up to it.

[peapod]

I can definately tell you it IS worth it in the end Steph 

[woodburner]

I find a fork easier to work with than a spade. Doesn't chop the roots so much either, so easier to pull up.

[celjaci]

You could cut back the raspberries to ground level then cover the whole area with the heavy-duty weed supressant membrane ( the woven one , Mpex or Phormisol )
The edges need to be pushed into the ground with a spade ( make a slit trench first if very weedy ) and the middle weighed down with something.
If this is left down for a year it will kill nearly everything. The raspberries will try to push through it but if you see any bumps you can just jump on them!
After a year it will be very much easier to dig over. If there are still a few live weeds it can be put back for a second season and maybe squash planted through it to get a crop while the remaining weeds are killed.

[andreadon]

As he said ^^

**ahem!**  she