[Totty]

Hi all, i am growing 2 types of runners this year. I have a small handfull of quite rare special runner seeds for my son to grow for the show, which will be grown in the garden. the other plants will be grown up the lotti.
 I want to save the seed frome our special seed but if poss we would like to grow Berlotti beans along side them.
 I have had conflicting views on this question so could anyone give me the answer.
Regards,
Totty

[sunshineband]

Borlotti beans will not cross pollinate with runners, and so saving the seeds from the special show beans should be fine.

[DD.]

Yes, they can cross pollinate, this is a result of my "Enorma" runners, crossing with climbing purple French beans.

[sunshineband]

The evidence is in DD's hand  

I can honestly say that our borlottis have had no effect on the runner seeds last year, as plants had normal pods, and that is what I based my answer on, but.....

 ... better be safe than sorry I think.

[gobs]

As much as I understand this issue. All beans are open-pollinated. Generally speaking it is quite safe and easy to save their seeds.

On the other hand, french beans are said to be self-setting, whereas runners need to be pollinated, this could mean some difference.

I haven't seen such problems.


PS: DD must have been saving seed of them so long, he might be having his own strain/variety soon.

[mumofstig]

French beans are self pollinating, and rarely cross, although it's not impossible - but runners need pollinating so can cross very easily.

Snap Gobs 

[sunshineband]

French beans are self pollinating, and rarely cross, although it's not impossible - but runners need pollinating so can cross very easily.

Snap Gobs 

and in DD's case, runners crossed with french beans 

[gobs]

You can get some albino disorder without any cross-pollination.

[DD.]

I ended up with allsorts of strange combinations. Purple runners, as shown, some French purple climbers went green, some had the red flowers of "Enorma" instead of purple ones etc.

I started afresh with new seed, the mutations were not a good strain.

[sunshineband]

As Totty wants her 'special' strain of runner to continue, balance of probability is that she be best to grow them in isolation from other beans then.


(Hope she didn't rush out and plant anythng after my first post  )

[gobs]

It is really rare. I would not worry too much, but a quick google brought up this lady's notes on the matter, who did some research into her beans, similar to the ones DD mentiones.

Basically, she says, cross-breeding/pollination happens by incisions. In nature this can happen as a result of carpenter bees' activities, who cut wholes into the flowers. The mother plant is normally a French bean. Strain needs establishing as not stable.

It can happen the other way around too, says she, but even more rare.

http://chiefio.wordpress.com/2011/05/29/runner-x-common-bean-crosses/



So, if you still feel like worrying Totty, you will need to hand pollinate some select plants and close flowers from access. I do not think seperation with distance would be managable in the home grd/allotment environment.


PS: I must add, however, I do not know much about carpenter bees feeding habits.

[Totty]

Ok, so although unlikely, its possible. I think for the sake of saving maybe 4 pods for seed it should be easy enough to hand pollinate the flowers on one stalk and keep the bees away from it maybe with a little mesh until the flowers set? Does that sound workable?
 All sounds good until the i get home and find the missus has been out and picked them that is!
 ( Yes sunshineband, i did say missus, as i am in fact..........A MAN!!)   :blink:

[sunshineband]

Ok, so although unlikely, its possible. I think for the sake of saving maybe 4 pods for seed it should be easy enough to hand pollinate the flowers on one stalk and keep the bees away from it maybe with a little mesh until the flowers set? Does that sound workable?
 All sounds good until the i get home and find the missus has been out and picked them that is!
 ( Yes sunshineband, i did say missus, as i am in fact..........A MAN!!)   :blink:

OOOPS!!!

Oooer, no-one mentioned that before.

Sorry Totty for not realising 

[gobs]

No.

1. I wouldn't bother at all. Maybe a sk around, what bees are nearby and what's up with the beans

2. 4 pods won't be enough (far not)

3. google. some people have been doing this for a life job, they have well worked out easy methods of how to do this successfully. a flimsy any odd net might not work. ( I do not know, it might as well)

[shokkyy]

Totty - if you go to the RealSeed website you'll find some good instructions on how to save seed and which seed types need to be isolated when saving. The link is here - http://www.realseeds.co.uk/seedsavinginfo.html. It doesn't specifically mention borlotti beans but it does give the crossing rules for French, runner and broad beans.