First allotment, absolutely overgrown - Making good progress!

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walterfilbert

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Hi all, almost my first post here. If you have any advice on greenhouse construction I'd love your input over here: https://chat.allotment-garden.org/index.php?topic=131126.msg1521434#msg1521434

So I know it's a frequent posting here, and it must be a question almost as old as allotments themselves, but 'where do I begin with this?'. I've done as much reading and searching on here as I can but thought I'd reach out anyway.

There's some pictures of the plot we've just been allocated in Gosport attached. As you can see it's an enticing combination of 6ft high brambles, nettles, some thick bits of grass and a nice pile of old wood. There's also two sheds, one of which looks like it might fall down in the next storm and the other looks okay!

The current plan is to tackle it bit by bit. We only have some folding saws, loppers and a billhook but that should allow us to at least make a dent in the forest. Hopefully a kind soul will see us struggling and offer us the use of their brush cutter. I did think about buying one but I don't think it would get too much use after this clearance.

Priority #1 will be clearing a way to the broken shed, checking what's inside and probably smashing it down with a sledgehammer. Bonus question: if you burn up this wood is it safe to pop in compost or do the nasties used in wood treatment stick around?

Priority #2 probably digging out an area for the greenhouse and getting that set up. Just because I feel like having a tonne of glass panes sat around is just... the longer they're not in a greenhouse, the more chance there is of them breaking! Also we don't really have anywhere in our garden to store the greenhouse, so the quicker it's on the plot the better.

Priority #3 - getting some composting areas constructed out of old pallets and getting ahold of as much compost/manure as possible so it can be ready as soon as possible.

Priority #4 further clearance of the plot, bit by bit, followed by trying to dig out the root systems of any nasty weeds we've probably not found yet and the big ol' brambles too. I think we're going to aim for a number of cultivated patches of approx 8x4ft with bark paths between them. We can aim to dig these bit by bit over the autumn/early winter so it feels like we're making in-roads.

How does that sound.. Is any of this remotely sensible? Is digging the plot and turning the soil over to remove roots the best option? When is the best time to add compost/manure to the turned over soil? Should we keep the soil covered with a membrane after it's dug?

Absolutely any and all advice is welcome and I look forward to keeping you all updated on how it goes!
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« Last Edit: October 27, 2019, 18:56 by walterfilbert »

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snow white

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Re: First allotment, absolutely overgrown, best practice?
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2019, 08:41 »
You seem to have it sorted out. :D   If it were mine I would use my cordless strimmer, loppers and shears on it and get it down short with my cordless lawnmower. The excess vegetation would be thrown in a pile for later removal to the dump or to burn. (too many weeds and roots to compost) I would measure the plot out and work out the best way to place things.  I would then mark the plot out with string and have beds marked for digging.  I would then cover the beds with plastic until I could deal with them, and dig as and when adding manure. Sheds and greenhouses would be incorporated into my design of course.  Then as your ideas develop so will your plot.  My plot looks nothing like it did when I started.  It evolves. 

My advise - tackle one thing at a time.  And be organised.

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mumofstig

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Re: First allotment, absolutely overgrown, best practice?
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2019, 08:54 »
Good luck with that! It's hard work but it will be worth it.
The site's advice is here
https://www.allotment-garden.org/allotment-information/clearing-new-allotment/
I did as John says and after getting the bramble roots out, I made a plan, and used weedkiller on the bits where the growing beds were going to be. After a couple of sprays all but a few deep-rooted weeds were dead and the beds could be forked over.
I bought a cheap battery strimmer and gradually strimmed down the bits that were to be my paths.
I also made a couple of raised beds where the soil was particularly heavy, and filled them with bagged compost, these were ideal for my first crops while I worked on the rest of the plot.
You can cover some with cardboard and or weed control fabric and grow pumpkins/courgettes through the covering, If you don't get it all cleared.  I still do this on part of my plot as it works so well at keeping that area weed-free :D

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Potterer

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Re: First allotment, absolutely overgrown, best practice?
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2019, 14:00 »
You’ll get as many suggestions as there are allotmenteers, but mine would be to look at Charles Downing, ‘no dig’ website. We inherited a very weedy allotment, strimmed it all right down then put black weed suppressing membrane over as much of it as we could. Charles Downing doesn’t advocate the membrane but we found it incredibly good - it lets in water but not light so the weeds die off. If you put it down soon, you will have made a good start of killing most weeds by next spring. We then marked out where we wanted beds, and made raised beds with lots of well rotted manure, having put cardboard at the bottom of the bed to further suppress the weeds. We used the membrane to cover the paths so we dont have to keep weeding them.
We started planting into the beds this spring and I am delighted! I genuinely have far fewer weeds than any of my longstanding neighbours. The only weed that has kept going is bindweed, but even that is far easier to pull up and weaken over time.
Reading your post, you would have to get the brambles out at the root as they would push the membrane up, but other weeds will die!
Good luck with it all, whichever route you decide to take

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Goosegirl

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Re: First allotment, absolutely overgrown, best practice?
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2019, 14:27 »
Phew, that's a real job you've got there and it will take a lot of time to sort out, but if there's a patch that's less weedy or more easily-weeded I'd do as the other said. I agree with the no-diggers because you don't bring weed seeds to the top which then germinate amazingly, it lets the worms do their job which also helps to aerate the soil, and get a good membrane so any strong weeds will hopefully be deterred from breaking through.
I work very hard so don't expect me to think as well.

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Growster...

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Re: First allotment, absolutely overgrown, best practice?
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2019, 18:42 »
I'd definitely go for 8' x 4' beds, but with grass paths. You can start immediately, and just work through the winter, one bed at a time!

We finished up with around thirty similar beds like that, and they were easy to control too - mind you it took some time, but you'll get there!

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TonyB.

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Re: First allotment, absolutely overgrown, best practice?
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2019, 18:56 »
If you don't want the same layout as previous tenant. Then be aware that about 3 or 4 inches under the weeds on the paths there will probably be some weed retardant fabric or polythene.

Weed kill then strim, Pile the matted weed roots in what you envisage to be your last bed and cover with tarp.

As you prepare your beds for next year cover with black plastic. Take the plastic off a couple of weeks before you are due to plant out or seed. This way you can week kill  those that appear rather than dig them out after you have sowed.

Good luck.

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walterfilbert

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Re: First allotment, absolutely overgrown, best practice?
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2019, 19:02 »
Thanks for all the comments so far! Great to see this is such an active community  :D :D

I've managed to source a brush cutter today from someone at work which is going to make my life so much easier!

We took a tape measure when we went and have started with a very rough outline of what we want to have on the plot eventually, including the small greenhouse and at some point a poly-tunnel. I'm absolutely mad for growing Aji/Chilli peppers and making hot sauce, so I'll have as much space on the plot under plastic or glass as my other half will let me!  :lol: At the moment all i have is a makeshift greenhouse made out of pallets and plastic in our very paved garden (picture attached because I'm proud), so having a whole plot is like a dream come true.

Interesting to know people are suggesting spraying off deep-rooted weeds. Do people use Glyphosate on allotments generally? I imagined that if anyone saw me with glyphosate I'd get shouted at. I'd like to avoid using it if possible but I know that sometimes it can be necessary.

Raised beds are a great idea, I've always thought they looked really attractive but haven't quite been won round to how practical they are considering the effort that goes in to building/filling them. I don't really know what the soil at the plot is like yet, so it might be that they are necessary.. I imagine we might have a couple of smaller raised beds at some point.

Potterer - thanks for raising Charles Dowding! I was going to talk about no dig in my initial post but I thought I was already rambling on long enough. I've watched a score of his videos and a lot of other advocates of no dig as well, "UK here we grow" have a great channel and they've moved to a more no-dig approach now too. I'm really really interested in the concept but I simply don't think I'll be able to source enough manure or compost right from the start to get the whole plot covered. I always had it in the back of my mind that I'd like to try to have some dug beds and some no-dig to compare the two.
 I think I'll strim off the grassy areas, cover those with membrane and let the grass die off over winter, and consider having those parts as my no-dig areas. I feel like I'm going to have to dig the bramble and weed roots out in the really over-grown patches so I might as well try and create the dug beds in that section!
 Priority #3 was written kind of with no-dig in mind, I'd like to get as much horse manure as possible so I could start no dig experiments as soon as possible!

Tony B - I didn't even consider the idea that there might be a load of fabric or membrane already laid out!! I'll hopefully be able to figure out where the old paths were and consider these when designing how we'll have our plot. Great point!

Thankyou again for all the comments! It's so encouraging. I've booked the rest of the week off work, we're dismantling and moving the greenhouse tomorrow, and hopefully beginning clearance and digging on Thursday!

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TonyB.

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Re: First allotment, absolutely overgrown, best practice?
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2019, 19:44 »
""Tony B - I didn't even consider the idea that there might be a load of fabric or membrane already laid out!! ""

LOL- Neither did I till the rotovator bounced all over the place!

Re Glysophate - our allotment association shop sells it concentrated we just water it down into a sprayer so perhaps we are not as "pure" as other places.

Re the old shed - unless it is painted with creosote would think the modern shed paint would not be harmful if burnt. The base could be good place for your greenhouse.  However if the shed is T&G rather than Feather Board then some of it may be useful for shelves inside and outside of the other shed, or even frames for your beds. Yes it will need replacing sooner than later but it would save having to buy all the new wood in the same year.

Have fun

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walterfilbert

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Re: First allotment, absolutely overgrown, best practice?
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2019, 22:40 »
First day on the allotment went really well! Managed to get everything cut back in a few hours and to a level where we can actually start making some nice scale based plans!

Like tony suggested, found lots and lots of hidden things in the undergrowth, matting, metal gutters, bits of wheelbarrows, watering cans, small gardening tools. Great stuff. Managed to get into one of the sheds which looked really sturdy from outside. We had to use bolt cutters to go through the latch which was padlocked, at which point the MDF door promptly split in two lengthways and fell on me hahaha!
Shed looked pretty sturdy but has been letting water in for a long time - bits of it are extremely rotten. We'll see if it's salvageable! lots of useful bits in the shed which is always nice.

Got chatting to a few guys and one said the plot was completely overgrown for over 4 years. Makes a lot of sense.

So excited to carry on transforming this. is there a thread where people post progress pictures of new allotments? Would be nice to keep this kind of updated and chronicle the change!
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« Last Edit: October 24, 2019, 22:41 by walterfilbert »

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Plot 1 Problems

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Re: First allotment, absolutely overgrown, best practice?
« Reply #10 on: October 25, 2019, 08:00 »
There is indeed, there's a growers diaries part of the forum right here:

https://chat.allotment-garden.org/index.php?board=37.0

Good luck!

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DHM

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Re: First allotment, absolutely overgrown, best practice?
« Reply #11 on: October 25, 2019, 08:05 »
Hello and welcome.

Mine looked rather like yours at the beginning and having had 18 months on it now, if I were to do it again I'd do it completely different. We tried to dig the lot over after strimming the tops but by the time we'd started sowing and planting, the weeds sprang back and we ended up doing it again. And again etc.

Your approach to tackle it in stages sounds sensible, and covering up with plastic or cardboard until you plant/sow stuff would be a good move.

Some on here go for the 'no-dig' concept and I'm going to try it next year as the weeds on our plot are ridiculous, though I wont be doing the raised beds, just heavy mulching and thick cardboard.

Good luck, hope you have fun.

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Kleftiwallah

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Re: First allotment, absolutely overgrown, best practice?
« Reply #12 on: October 25, 2019, 09:20 »

Welcome to the site chum.

Why do "Those in Authority" continually let spare allotments get into this state?  Surely it's better to hand-over as quickly as possible.  But then when to we see the "Council" boing anything at speed or sensibly?

Cheers,  Tony
I may be growing OLD, but I refuse to grow UP !

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mumofstig

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Re: First allotment, absolutely overgrown, best practice?
« Reply #13 on: October 25, 2019, 14:10 »
The council has to do inspections to notice which plots aren't being worked, before  they can offer it to someone from the waiting list. With most, without an effective Committee, as long as someone is paying for a plot, they aren't that bothered whether it is worked or not.

You can often get a plot by going onto sites and finding the ones that aren't being cultivated and ask the Council/committee if you can take one of those on (assuming you are prepared to do the work)…
Our Council has become more proactive over the last couple of years and now checks the plots each month of the growing season, so they get relet directly the tenant stop cultivating (council repossession) or hand back their key.

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rowlandwells

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Re: First allotment, absolutely overgrown, best practice?
« Reply #14 on: October 25, 2019, 18:50 »
its nice to read about your enthusiasm together with your commitment to pull that run down allotment back to growing something except weeds and brambles I've been there got the tea shirt as they say the first plot we took on was a new plot so lovely and tidy then we took on more ground because there seem to be a lack of interest and many plots where becoming redundant

that's when the work started as the plots had gone back to nature because the ground was very wet  we had to leave the plot clearing till come spring we sprayed the plots with roundup then after around three weeks

we started cultivation of the plots adding manure to get the plots  growing again and we had some good crops of those plots I have to say its very frustrating to see good growing ground at a very low rent left to nature I'm not a black poly sheet or carpet man i sprayed my plots last month with roundup and the ground looks very tidy and clear of weeds because I don't  think we won't be able to plough the ground before spring as its so wet and I'm not sure if its getting to late to use roundup?

we have just payed our allotment rent and I'm hoping  there are more takers for  the empty plots because its a shame to see as i said good growing ground go to waste

anyway enough chat i wish you good luck with you new plot and you will find many good gardeners on this site to give you good sound advise should you need it just ask



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