Heating - without electric

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Willow_Warren

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Heating - without electric
« on: March 04, 2015, 17:06 »
Hi,

Does anyone have any advise on heating a greenhouse that does not have an electric supply.  I think I have too many plants (mainly chillis and peppers) and I still have tomatoes to start of later, and once a bit larger won't all fit on my one and only sunny windowsill!  (oh... how I miss my conservatory & overflow sunny windowsills!)

My greenhouse is 6 x 6 ft, but I wouldn't need to heat the whole of it, I have one of those cheap wood/polycarbonate growhouses, so I could just heat that within the greenhouse.

My greenhouse positioned on some decking that is at the top of the garden so about 100ft from the house and a supply of electricty!

I don't want heating it to break the bank, but I do this for enjoyment so I don't need to watch the pennies either so to speak!

Thanks

Hannah

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Kristen

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Re: Heating - without electric
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2015, 17:31 »
I think there are two choices:

0) Electric.  Fully thermostatic, and as such I think the cheapest for Spring frost protection. Only on when needed, and apart from any worry of power cuts?? no need to visit greenhouse of an evening to "light it" etc.  Cost of fitting an armoured cable to the greenhouse, and a mini distribution board and an earthing rod is ... significant and, of course, a non-starter for an allotment or site remote from house.

1) Bottle gas. Runs on a pilot light, and a crude thermostat, so not too wasteful.  produces some condensation, thermostat is crude so Max/Min temperature is a bit of a guess. If you already have a bottle, for BBQ/similar then only cost of fuel, if not there is cost of the "rental" of the bottle.  Need two bottles to be able to switch over when the primary becomes empty.  Dunno if there is much chance of the pilot light going out?? Risk of the Bottle being stolen on an allotment?

2) Paraffin. Lots of condensation, risk of it sooting everything up if the wick burns unevenly, need to light it manually on cold nights and extinguish in the morning, so it will be burning all that time, regardless of whether the temperature is/remains cold or not, so expensive on fuel.

Either Gas or Paraffin can be put under metal staging and will heat the staging, and thereby the roots of the plants, which will enable them to endure colder air temperatures.

You might get away (for a small enclosure, within a greenhouse) with Tea-lights - an upturned clay flowerpot over the top will help to spread the heat.  Has the drawback of having to light them in the evening when cold temperatures are expected (although no need to extinguish them in the morning I suppose?!!)
« Last Edit: March 04, 2015, 17:33 by Kristen »

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BigPaddy

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Re: Heating - without electric
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2015, 21:19 »
Candle power - clay pot heater?

Patrick
Hull, East yorkshire

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cadalot

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Re: Heating - without electric
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2015, 10:10 »
I tried them but I just could not cut the pots in half like the diagram  :)

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BabbyAnn

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Re: Heating - without electric
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2015, 14:00 »
tea lights only burn for a short time and would never last overnight

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cadalot

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Re: Heating - without electric
« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2015, 14:16 »
tea lights only burn for a short time and would never last overnight
You can buy eight hour tea lights

ebay £7.99 50 Pack - 8 Hour Burn Long Burning Wax Tealights Night Light Candles Christmas candle
« Last Edit: March 05, 2015, 14:37 by cadalot »

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adri123

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Kristen

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Re: Heating - without electric
« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2015, 16:05 »
I've seen various calculations for the wattage of Tea-lights, but they range from 40W to 80W.  It isn't much, although in a small tunnel / 4-shelf blowaway, inside a greenhouse, it isn't a lot of space to heat so may be viable.  But important not to assume that a Tea-light is enough to heat a greenhouse that would ordinarily need a 2kW fan heater - that fan heater has the equivalent output of 50 Tea-lights :)

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jrko

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Re: Heating - without electric
« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2015, 16:15 »
I've seen the same but that 13g of paraffin wax is closer to 30w per hour.  It doesn't matter how many flowerpots or bolts you throw at it its still only a 30w source and is only going to heat a tiny area.  Add more candles?  You'd need 33 tea lights to equal a 1000w heater. Wax is burnt while trying to equalise the heat between the greenhouse and the candles.  The outside atmosphere is sucking away that heat energy.  It'd be more effective if you burnt your staging  :lol:
« Last Edit: March 05, 2015, 17:30 by jrko »
Hello.  My name is James, the builder of Evil Shed mkII and The Greenhouse of Doom.  Please enjoy the madness of my Plot Diary here:
http://chat.allotment-garden.org/index.php?topic=107298.0

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Kristen

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Re: Heating - without electric
« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2015, 16:19 »
Some insulation over the heat source and plants would reduce heat loss ... an old duvet over the top perhaps?

Fire risk too of course ....

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jrko

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Re: Heating - without electric
« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2015, 16:30 »
Id just buy a standard paraffin greenhouse heater and bulk buy your parafin if you need it a lot.  They're old, they're still around........because they work.  No muss, no fuss

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cadalot

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Re: Heating - without electric
« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2015, 19:11 »
Or just wait for the weather to improve  ::)

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BigPaddy

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Re: Heating - without electric
« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2015, 20:40 »
I tried them but I just could not cut the pots in half like the diagram  :)

Love it.

10 hour tea lights are very cheap at Makro. The pots stay hot longer than the candle. Granted you will not get the same heat as parafin, but you will get some help against frost. I have been surprised by how much heat they do give out.


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Markw

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Re: Heating - without electric
« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2015, 21:51 »
It's all related to the specific heat of the storage material, and how long it takes to release the stored energy.
Here are a few specific heat examples of some common materials  and the energy to heat them  in (J/kgoC)

Water 4189 (J/kgoC)
Air 1000 (J/kgoC)
Sandy clay soil 1380 (J/kgoC)
Dry soil 800 (J/kgoC)
Wet soil 1480 (J/kgoC)
Terracotta 1000 (J/kgoC)
Remember that the weight of air is 1.23kg M3. So lets say your terracotta flower pots weigh 4kg and you heated them up to 90 c, the same energy would heat 1ltr or water to 90c  in the same time. As the specific capacity of air and terracotta are about the same 1000 (J/kgoC)  they cool down 4 times faster. So you need to ask yourself could a 1 ltr container of water in the centre of your greenhouse with a constant  temperature of  90c heat your greenhouse over cold frosty nights. remember we have not allowed for any heat loss through the thin glass.  ::) so please don't think a few flower pots and and a couple of night lights will keep your plants nice and warm  :( there are lots of other better materials in the greenhouse that are better for storing heat. 
« Last Edit: March 05, 2015, 21:53 by Markw »
“When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic.”

Dresden James

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BigPaddy

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Re: Heating - without electric
« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2015, 23:57 »
Sometimes I really want to reply and decide its best not to.



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