Completely Decimated

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cammi

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Completely Decimated
« on: August 19, 2014, 15:28 »
This is my first year trying to grow veg, we are using raised beds and was also trying the square foot system.  Due to the making and filling we were a few weeks behind planting this year.   Well..........I've been away for a few weeks, came back yesterday and all the leafy/brassica plants have been completely eaten by caterpillars!  I have spent today, more or less, completely emptying the beds, getting rid of the caterpillars.  I have a few carrots, swiss chard and a cabbage left but thats about it  :( so disheartening, but really didn't see the point of keeping the skeletons.

So two questions.

1.  What can I do next year to prevent this, so i may stand a chance of actually harvesting something.

2.  Is there something I can now be planting in my empty beds?

Many thanks
11 Chickens (Rhode Rock, Bluebell, Copper Black, Columbine, Coucou, Mystery Hen, Clarance Court, Araucana, brown hen ) , 3 Cats (1 mog, 1 bengal, 1 Bengal x),  2 Little Boys, 1 dog (Golden Retriever) and 1 Husband

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surbie100

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Re: Completely Decimated
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2014, 15:37 »
Sorry to read you've had a disaster. The only real way of keeping out the pests is to net your veg. Something with tiny holes like veggiemesh will keep out pretty much everything, and small holed butterfly net (7mm or smaller) will keep out the butterflies. If the leaves touch the mesh or the net the butterflies can lay eggs through the holes, so it's worth keeping an eye out.

On the plus side, the net should last years. Your local DIY stores or garden centres might have some leeks or brassicas for planting out and harvesting next year. Mine certainly do.

Hope that helps.  :)

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cammi

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Re: Completely Decimated
« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2014, 16:51 »
Yes I do have mesh type netting on one bed.  I went to the garden center for enviromesh, but they didnt sell that so was sold insect netting as they say it was the same, but I find it is so dense the rain just rolls off it and to water the bed properly I have to take it off.  Is veggie netting as dense. The bed with the net on did fare alot better than the others, only problem like you say, as they were unattended, plants grew and lifted the net in a couple of places lol.

If i managed to find something to plant in my now empty beds, do i plant them in this years postions or next years??  This rotation thing makes my head spin  :wacko:

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TheWhiteRabbit

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Re: Completely Decimated
« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2014, 23:03 »
Definitely close hole netting but also check the plants for butterfly eggs when you plant them out. They're usually small, green, round eggs in a little cluster under the leaf. Squish them and you'll most likely be caterpillar free.

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devonbarmygardener

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Re: Completely Decimated
« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2014, 23:36 »
Netting is no absolute guarantee though sadly :(
But it's the best we can try ;)

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Goosegirl

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Re: Completely Decimated
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2014, 12:20 »
Cammi - rotating some crops is because specific diseases can build up in the soil that affect the following years' crops. There is plenty of advice on here about how to do it, though recently I've learnt that you don't need to rotate peas and beans, just pots, roots and brassicas. I just label my beds A,B,C,D on a piece of paper then move what I grew in A to plot B (etc) the next year.
I work very hard so don't expect me to think as well.

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cammi

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Re: Completely Decimated
« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2014, 21:56 »
Thanks folks, went to garden center today and they had some tiny little cabbages, psb, etc so will buy some of those, but they are the size my seedlings were when I planted them out, so god knows if they will have time to grow before winter sets in.  they had sold out of insect netting, so didnt think there was point buying them until ive got some protection for them.  They had fleece, is that any use for this year?

I sort of understand the rotation thing, but wHat i mean is these replacement one do i pretend they are the ones i planted this spring and plant them in the same bed?


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RJR_38

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Re: Completely Decimated
« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2014, 22:26 »
You could get debris netting instead of enviromesh - an awful lot cheaper!

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devonbarmygardener

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Re: Completely Decimated
« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2014, 22:28 »
Or cheap net curtains - the non-lacy type ;)

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ptarmigan

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Re: Completely Decimated
« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2014, 08:05 »
It'll be fine if you plant the same crop in the same ground to replace the ones that have been eaten. Rotation is important but probably more important not to grow the same crops (that is crops that need rotated like brassicas) year after year unless you use lots of fertilisers and pesticides. It's good practice to rotate but you'll probably get away with not rotating perfectly every time.

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cammi

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Re: Completely Decimated
« Reply #10 on: September 01, 2014, 21:37 »
thanks everyone, hubby lost his job (got another one now TG) but money is rather tight so i dont think i will be trying again this year, but next year, fingers crossed, I'm going to invest in some mesh and wood and make some 'cages'.

Do people still use pesticides on such things these days??  I live surrounded by fields of cabbages, so the farmers must use something, I know it defeats the GYO thing a bit, but wondered if there was something gentler but effective.

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JimB

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Re: Completely Decimated
« Reply #11 on: September 01, 2014, 22:15 »
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I know the feeling, but keep trying!

A different approach might work next year, forget what you tried and were a disaster this time!

Forget brassicas  with the exception of Kohl Rabi the white beasties can smell them for miles!

Try potatoes,peas, dwarf and climbing beans, runner beans, broad beans, parsnips, beetroot, leeks and lettuce.

nothing makes you smile like success.

Best of luck!
STOP, and smell the roses!

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cammi

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Re: Completely Decimated
« Reply #12 on: September 01, 2014, 23:09 »
JimB did peas beans etc tried parsnips too but nothing came up lol.  Ill give the 'cage' a go next year if that doesnt work, ill call it quits with them.  I asked a friend today how she copes with the caterpillars, her reply.....she now only grows below ground crops (except beans etc of course) lol

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Kristen

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Re: Completely Decimated
« Reply #13 on: September 02, 2014, 06:53 »
Thanks folks, went to garden center today and they had some tiny little cabbages, psb, etc so will buy some of those, but they are the size my seedlings were when I planted them out, so god knows if they will have time to grow before winter sets in. 

Sounds very late for PSB plants to me ... my Garden Centre sells all sorts of things that are far too late to be planted out (and they have rows and rows of Rhododendrons, and no suitable acid-soil within driving distance from here ...).  Personally I don't grow over winter cabbage either (and I wouldn't be sure that is what your garden centre is selling as plug plants, unless they are labelled as such)

If you are using Square Foot method I presume your raised beds are "tiny"?  if so I think that Brassicas may be a luxury - they need 2' or 2'6" per plant, and they don't yield a great deal, and are in the ground from Spring until well into Winter - not to mention the caterpillar and pigeon issues!.  I suggest only planting Brassicas if that is what you particular like to eat :)

For a Newbie I would suggest sticking to High Value, Best Flavour (which might be low-ish yielding) varieties, and only growing what you like to eat.  Things like Runner Beans  and Courgettes are relatively expensive in the shops because of the manual labour to pick them, but they crop heavily and thus represent a good value crop.  Main Crop Potatoes, for example, are very cheap in the shops, farmers can store them well into the Winter in their cold stores which stops them sprouting - you or I would have trouble with that! - and main crop spuds are also very prone to late blight, so I would avoid growing them.  New Potatoes OTOH are expensive in the shops, and will taste better picked and immediately cooked (something about the sugar turning to starch from the moment they are picked), plus you can grow the exact variety/s that you & your family like, and which suit your soil.

I hate it when newbies have crop failure, or find the task of growing-their-own arduous, because it is so disheartening and likely to put them off - just as you have described. I have been doing it for years, and crop failure is now rare for me, but I have so much in my vegetable patch that total failure of one thing does't prevent the Galley from churning out great meals :)  Still annoys me intently though ...

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money is rather tight

The Garden Centre Group is currently selling off seed packets at 50p each, dunno if there is one near you (or if they will have much left) but might save a few pennies for next year. This forum has a Seed Parcel most years, might be worth looking out for that too :)

www.thegardencentregroup.co.uk/garden-centres/find

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Do people still use pesticides on such things these days??

I don't put any chemicals on my crop, ever ... except that I would if I was at risk of losing the whole crop.  We grow firstly for flavour (I don't care if the variety I like the taste of is low yielding, or prone to disease, or fussy about something, we want our veg to taste First Rate :) ), and secondly for the provenance that at least for the food we grow ourselves there is nothing added; in my lifetime there have been so many chemicals which have started out with news headlines that they are the panacea, and then years later are found to be toxic / have side effects / are withdrawn ... I just feel happier not eating chemical-added grub whenever possible.

For some bugs a spray with water plus detergent is effective, most people would be happy using that - but it won't help you with caterpillars :(. Chemical pesticides are systemic - they are retained by the plant and kill bugs that then eat them - but soap is a contact-only solution, so you have to keep spraying regularly, and get over-and-under the leaves, so it is harder work than a chemical pesticide

I net my brassicas (and several other things that the Pigeons like) with Scaffolders Debris Netting. It is often thrown away after a job, so if you see some on a building site near you worth asking if you can blag it when the scaffolding comes down - builders have to pay "muck away" to have skips/rubbish carted away, so you'll be saving them some money taking it off their hands - so don't be shy to ask! Some pictures on my blog showing my 9-year-old erecting it in my veg patch :)

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Nobbie

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Re: Completely Decimated
« Reply #14 on: September 02, 2014, 07:54 »
Do people still use pesticides on such things these days??  I live surrounded by fields of cabbages, so the farmers must use something, I know it defeats the GYO thing a bit, but wondered if there was something gentler but effective.

I'm not adverse to using pesticides on my crops, but in your case it wouldn't have helped as you have to be there to spray and TBH it's easier just to pick/wash off the caterpillars when they appear. The trick is to catch them early by careful inspection on a regular basis once you see the butterflys.



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