[JaneF]

I hope someone can help me please.

My parsnips leaves are being systematically chomped away by little caterpillars, with a black line down the length of their backs. What are they likely to be, and what is the best natural killer to use please?

Also my brassicas are now being attacked by caterpillars. Green fat blighters. I keep finding clusters oh yellow eggs underneath, which I keep crushing.
What butterfly eggs are they likely to be and what natural killer should I use on them please?

Thank you.

Jane

[Salmo]

Similar caterpillars on parsnips were reported on a post some time ago. They sound like a sawfly but I cannot find any reference to them anywhere. Best to rub them off.

There are 2 butterflies that lay their eggs on brassicas. The Large White has big grey/green caterpillars that are usually quite obvious. The Small White has pea green caterpillars that tend to keep a low profile, you will often find then lying along leaf stems, they are good at penetrating the very inner parts of calabrese heads.

You can do as you are doing and squidge the eggs and caterpillars. You can prevent the eggs from being laid by covering your beds with netting with holes less than 7mm. There are nematodes that you can water on but I have no experience of their effectiveness.

[JayG]

I hope someone can help me please.

My parsnips leaves are being systematically chomped away by little caterpillars, with a black line down the length of their backs. What are they likely to be, and what is the best natural killer to use please?

Similar caterpillars on parsnips were reported on a post some time ago. They sound like a sawfly but I cannot find any reference to them anywhere. Best to rub them off.

It was probably me:
http://chat.allotment-garden.org/index.php?topic=97965.msg1087511#msg1087511

A few weeks ago I had something similar under a French bean leaf in the greenhouse.

In both cases the offending leaves went into the black bin rather pronto - the caterpillars were probably newly hatched so very difficult to identify. Sawfly is as good a guess as any (if only because there are so many different types!) and it's possible that the adult female laid on the wrong plant by mistake. 

Tempting to think it could be carrot fly because parsnips are from the same family as carrots, but their eggs are laid at the base of the stems rather than on the leaves.

Removal of the worst leaves and squishing is the only non-chemical way other than fine netting I can think of, as Salmo has already posted.

[Salmo]

Anybody else seen these?

[Jabberwock]

Lost 2 sowings of parsnip to a wee beastie which decimated the leaves within weeks, after close inspection it appeared to be little white grubs/larvae, they were tiny but I could just make out a dark line down the side of some of them.  They attacked the leaves and they quickly turned crispy and brown, I pulled up both sowings and all of the young roots were undamaged and the annoying thing for me was that the parsnips themselves were actually a decent size
First year that I have ever encountered this problem and absolutely gutted that this year we won't be eating home-grown parsnips.

[JaneF]

Firstly, thank you all for your replies.

I found the same caterpillars on my brassicas tonight. They seem to cluster together, so squashing them all is darned easy!

I have had the chubby green ones too. So these have also been dispatched!

It's interesting to read all your thoughts. The parsnip leaves have indeed turned crispy brown, and those badly affected are now shooting up new leaves. So it bodes well.

I do however have a confession. I bought a chemical spray lastnight I hate using them, but the infestation on parsnips was affecting the entire sowing and I decided to fight back on a nuclear scale!
On looking at them tonight all is well in parsnip land. For now anyway!

I was on caterpillar and egg squashing patrol tonight and I may have to call in the big guns if my fingers can't keep up.

[Jabberwock]

Glad to hear that your parsnips have started to make a recovery, mine with the exception of just a couple were sadly too far gone and I decided to use the bed for sowing something else.  Can I ask what spray you bought?  I have never used chemicals before but next year I have resolved to save my parsnips even if it means waging chemical warfare so any info on sprays will be really helpful........................fore-warned is after all fore-armed!!

[JayG]

I've had a close look at my parsnips this morning and found about half a dozen leaves (from about 30 plants) with varying numbers of what seem to be the same type of small caterpillars I linked to a picture earlier in this thread. They are a creamy white until full of my parsnip leaf tissue when they become mainly green! 

They are now in the black bin - don't seem be doing much damage at the present level of infestation although whatever they are I think I need to keep vigilant.

http://chat.allotment-garden.org/index.php?topic=97965.msg1087511#msg1087511

[brianbishop]

Justhad three rows of snips decimated by these critturs!!! All the leaves look like lace. Have cuts the lves off in the hope they regrow.
Bish

[Totty]

Had lots of trouble this year with various coloured catterpillars doing their best to ruin everything.
Parsnips, brassicas, peppers, carrots, beetroot, squash and courgettes, onions and leeks have all been hit hard by catterpillars. Some green and small, some bigger and brown. All sprayed with a pyrethrin based spray. Seems to be settling down now.

Totty

[seaside]

That's interesting Totty. Would that be Pyrethrum 5EC ? I see it is synthesised from an old flower extraction and is now ok'd with conditions by the Soil Association. It certainly has a wide variety of pests on it's hit list if it is effective. I think I read somewhere it can be used on blackfly and moths as well as their caterpillars... I wonder if that might even include the leek moth and/or leaf miners.

[Totty]

That's interesting Totty. Would that be Pyrethrum 5EC ? I see it is synthesised from an old flower extraction and is now ok'd with conditions by the Soil Association. It certainly has a wide variety of pests on it's hit list if it is effective. I think I read somewhere it can be used on blackfly and moths as well as their caterpillars... I wonder if that might even include the leek moth and/or leaf miners.

I think it's based on a chrysanthemum extraction and certainly seems to work. Brassicas that were hit hard by catterpillars have been sprayed and all new growth is totally clean regardless of the constant efforts of the butterfly's!

Totty

[Jackypam]

That sounds good.  Does it have warnings about not eating within a number of days or is it harmless to humans?

[Salmo]

That's interesting Totty. Would that be Pyrethrum 5EC ? I see it is synthesised from an old flower extraction and is now ok'd with conditions by the Soil Association. It certainly has a wide variety of pests on it's hit list if it is effective. I think I read somewhere it can be used on blackfly and moths as well as their caterpillars... I wonder if that might even include the leek moth and/or leaf miners.

I think it's based on a chrysanthemum extraction and certainly seems to work. Brassicas that were hit hard by catterpillars have been sprayed and all new growth is totally clean regardless of the constant efforts of the butterfly's!

Totty

Now we need to distinguish between Pyrethrum and Pyrethroids

Pyrethrum is the extract from the flowerhead of the Chrysanthemum plant.  The six esters known collectively as pyrethrins are found within the pyrethrum extract.  The pyrethrins are the active ingredient in pyrethrum that kills insects. 

Pyrethroids are synthetically produced compounds with a chemical structure that is similiar to the structure of one of the pyrethrin esters.  They kill insects by a similiar mode of action, but do not come from flowers.

An example of Pyrethrum is a product called Py. An example of a Pyrethroid is Bayer Ultimate Fruit and Veg Bug Killer, which contains Deltamethrin.

Pyrethrums are usually accepted as organic but you are really better to avoid both if you can as they are not specific and kill all insects, good or bad. You do not really want to kill ladybirds, hover flies etc.if you can avoid it.

[seaside]

Thanks Salmo. It does appear it kills beneficials unfortunately, so not a lot of good for ultimate sustainability. So that's me out of the market I guess, barring a plague of locusts hoving into Plymouth Sound.
The more I read, the more saddened I become as to where the Soil Association is headed. To their credit they do admit they only came about due to the 1960s insecticide health revelations and are more interested in ultimate sustainable healthy cropping than "organics". It's about time then, that they relinquished their domination of the word "organic", as they are devaluing it day by day with every further certification they make that is so obviously not what many people assume it should be.

They don't get my vote any more, and I wonder if they are being slowly nobbled.

On a more pleasing and parsnip note, I thought I would dig one up today to see how they were progressing. An absolutely perfect specimen, and growing very nicely indeed. So it looks as if the crowbar dibbing and filling with compost has had the desired effect. What an effective method.