More Garlic concerns - waterlogged ground

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DHM

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More Garlic concerns - waterlogged ground
« on: December 03, 2018, 05:26 »
Sorry to keep banging on about my Sept planted Garlic & Shallots but yesterday I noticed some yellowing of the leaves, particularly of the Garlic and am wondering if they're rotting off.

Our site is heavy water retentive soil on a clay pan, lots of puddling on the unturned bits with the rain we've had this week though I topped the garlic beds up with 1ft of soil a few months ago so hoped the fresh, loose soil might aid drainage. There are no puddles on those beds but are still quite spongey, stepping on the soil my foot sank about 3 inches into the ground. Some on our site avoid overwintering onion family veg because of the waterlogging but I though I'd got away with it.

Does leaf yellowing indicate they might be dying off or it is fine for this time of year?

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JayG

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Re: More Garlic concerns - waterlogged ground
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2018, 08:43 »
Garlic is pretty tough stuff, but like all plants not adapted to living in boggy conditions they can suffer if subjected to waterlogged conditions for any length of time.

Pull out one of the affected plants and have a look at the stem and roots - it will be fairly obvious if they are rotting away. Good luck.
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mumofstig

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Re: More Garlic concerns - waterlogged ground
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2018, 09:21 »
You are bound to sink into recently added soil, if you step on it ;)
Raised a foot higher than the rest really should be high enough to stop them getting too wet, they don't expect to be in completely dry soil over winter.
I'd bet good money on them just yellowing in response to Winter's arrival, all you need is for them to put down roots so they can grow away in Spring.


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Goosegirl

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Re: More Garlic concerns - waterlogged ground
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2018, 12:30 »
Might be a daft thing to say but did you firm the soil afterwards and add any feed? It could just be as others have said and that they need time to settle in but just check one out to see if there are any roots showing.
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DHM

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Re: More Garlic concerns - waterlogged ground
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2018, 07:19 »
Might be a daft thing to say but did you firm the soil afterwards and add any feed? It could just be as others have said and that they need time to settle in but just check one out to see if there are any roots showing.

I didn't need to firm the soil as it was fairly moist/packed anway, i just pushed them into the ground and covered the tops over if any long bits poked out. Initially I placed half a pop bottle over each one to protect them and this helped keep the soil drier around each bulb, however some strong wind saw them off!

They look to be rooted and the tops have shot up since planting in Sept.

In terms of the raised 1ft thing, they actually aren't; when I inherited the plot the soil levels were about 8-12" below ground level so having topped that bed up a ft it's still only at groumd level generally, if that makes sense.

I was wondering if sinking a garden fork fully into the ground at regular intervals might help with drainage around the bulbs, or if this would just make the problem worse?

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New shoot

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Re: More Garlic concerns - waterlogged ground
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2018, 09:25 »
I was wondering if sinking a garden fork fully into the ground at regular intervals might help with drainage around the bulbs, or if this would just make the problem worse?

It might make it worse as you could create holes where even more water could collect.  If your soil sinks 3" when stepped on, try to keep off it and leave all that air in there.  That is what will help drain the water.

I also have heavy soil and every year I lose a few overwintering onions and garlic, but the majority get through.  The shallots very rarely fail.  Sometimes I get yellow leaves as well.  Come February (ish), I give them a scattering of pelleted chicken manure and repeat this about 6 weeks later. 

As mum says, its more about growing roots at this stage.  If you find the water logging is a real issue, you might have to look at making a raised bed, but I'd give them a chance as they are.  They're pretty tough  :)

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Snowboar

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Re: More Garlic concerns - waterlogged ground
« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2018, 19:15 »
What about mulching the soil with compost draw some moisture off might be talking daft there no sure

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DHM

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Re: More Garlic concerns - waterlogged ground
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2018, 07:22 »
Checked them at the weekend and they seem to be ok. The ones with a few yellow leaves I'd noticed had a bit of soil washed away leaving the bulbs slightly exposed, only a few thankfully. The bulbs were firm and had some good roots so I topped up the soil around the bulbs. If I get away with it, next year I'll prep the beds a bit better!

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Goosegirl

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Re: More Garlic concerns - waterlogged ground
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2018, 14:08 »
Your garlic will be in the bed for quite a while so you won't be able to do anything about drainage until they're harvested. In the meantime if you have any beds that aren't planted, do what is called double-digging which is what I did on similar soil to yours. Dig a trench and put the soil in a barrow or whatever, dig or fork over the bottom and into the clay pan, add grit, manure or mushroom compost then take a step behind, dig another trench and do likewise except the soil from your second trench goes in the first one with more added grit and manure as you go. Repeat until you get to the last trench and fill that with the soil you took out of the first one. One thing to be careful of is not to bring up the clay pan subsoil into your top layers.

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JayG

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Re: More Garlic concerns - waterlogged ground
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2018, 16:32 »
Checked them at the weekend and they seem to be ok. The ones with a few yellow leaves I'd noticed had a bit of soil washed away leaving the bulbs slightly exposed, only a few thankfully. The bulbs were firm and had some good roots so I topped up the soil around the bulbs. If I get away with it, next year I'll prep the beds a bit better!

Good news.  :)

Next year, plant the cloves with the tips about 1" beneath the surface. This will avoid them becoming exposed and also give the stems more support, as well as stopping birds pulling the newly planted cloves out of the soil.

(I have read advice about planting them with the tips just below the surface, and I've not trawled through all the available articles to find out which method is recommended most often, but certainly the RHS advice is for the deeper planting, and it's always worked fine for me.)

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DHM

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Re: More Garlic concerns - waterlogged ground
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2018, 07:28 »
Goosegirl, I did consider double digging the whole plot when we got it but was advised not to by neighbours due to the issues you describe about bring the clay up. At the time I dug a test trench and it wasnt long before the orangey stuff appeared. There is a clay'ridge' across the plot which bings the clay bed less than a foot below the surface in places which is why I ended up forking it all over to a depth of about 8". Otherwise I started replacing the soil depleted beds from a mysterious soil mound at one end of the plot. My predecessor worked in odd ways...! If things dont go to plan I will use the method you describe next year probably.

JayG, deeper planting makes sense, the Jan and March Garlic planting will be done this way.

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Goosegirl

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Re: More Garlic concerns - waterlogged ground
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2018, 12:23 »
My veg plot used to be a farm field and the soil pan the tractors made was at best just 5" below the surface. I did a sort of double-digging by a doing a single dig down then forked the bottom over to help with drainage. Odd bits of sub-soil did get into the replacement layers but over the years it's been broken up with digging and adding extra top soil and compost.

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DHM

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Re: More Garlic concerns - waterlogged ground
« Reply #12 on: December 13, 2018, 17:24 »
5"? Wow. My wifes friend took a plot on the same site this year too and its as bad as mine there if not a lot worse... clay is such a pain!

Going to really get the ground right next year, may even go no dig depending on how the close-planting plan goes this year...



 

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