[basketcase]

OK.  So I've managed (with the help of Ray and Dan who've sprayed one end of the plot with Round Up!) to -mostly!- clear away the ground elder; docks, couch grass and creeping buttercup.  

I'm now down to the next layer in the weed ecosytem and there are a couple I can't recognise.  One or two may even be leftovers from my predecssor, like his spuds.     Don't have a digital camera, unfortunately, but the main ones seem to be:

1) One that gave me a heart attack by looking like mare's tails, but can't be because it doesn't have 'joints' and it does have quite pretty purple flowers.  They resemble pine tree seedlings but, again, they're not.

2) The leaves are lacy on this one, not unlike french marigolds but forest green.  Stands about 6-8" high and also has purple flowers. Can't remember the correct term, but it has lots on one stem, like vetch!  It has a tap root that looks like a tiny parsnip.  I suppose I can hope that it is!

The questions in each case are what are they? How hard are they to get rid of and how do I do it?  At the moment I'm combining hoeing and pulling 'em up by hand.  Am I doing the right thing?  Thing is they're in with the veg, so I don't want to spray there.

Much obliged for any help!

[Beanzie]

Alas there is no magic answer

I would suggest that if you have planted crops that you refrain from chemical use, instead use a  "hoe" between the rows. If you have a steady hand, good eyesight and sowed straight in the first place you can hoe to within 0.5 of an inch (1.27 cm) to the plants. To completely clear the weeds I'm afraid its a hand weeding job. The good news is that "weeding" can be very satisfying and relaxing. If you hand weed it should stay clear for at least a week.

The secret  is to "hoe" all of your ground once a week. This not only kills weeds you can see, but done properly kills weeds that are about to emerge. Howerver, you may still need to hand weed slose to the plants until the canopy of leaves expands to such an extent that you are able to hoe beneath the canopy therefore eliminating the need for hand  weeding.

[supersprout]

I've found these sites useful for identifying weeds :roll:

http://theseedsite.co.uk/weeds.html
http://www.dgsgardening.btinternet.co.uk/weeds.htm

at this stage of the year, I treat all weeds - including cooch, bindweed and willow weed - as annuals, just hoe them off or pull by hand. They are supposed to give up eventually!

[noshed]

Keep your hoe sharpened - use a file or a sharpening stone.

[basketcase]

Thanks for getting back all!

Have just spent a couple of hours hoeing as far as possible between (not very straight!) rows and hand weeding between the plants I've got.  As I don't want to use sprays ata anywhere near things we're eating, I realised that this was probably the only way.  Just wondered if either of the weeds described was edible - or even not a weed - and if either was pernicious enough to need a flamethrower!  

I also decided to try and dig out some of the root system of the ground elder which was sprayed 4 weeks ago.  We're growing folwers there, so spraying's not a problem and it was only Round Up anyway.  It ain't completely dead!   Will probalby need another spray!

[Oliver]

Useful sites for weeds: thanks supersprout for the addresses, they are very interesting.
Another useful identification site is:
http://www.bayercropscience.co.uk/whiskycomp.aspx?sec=1036&con=1040&fn=fullbroad
(Of course, being a commercial site they want to sell you stuff to kill the weeds ...)

[Oliver]

Alas there is no magic answer - "hoe" once a week

How to know that is a weed? Basically, if you didn't plant it, its a weed so pull it up!
As Beanzie says, keeping the weeds down in the only answer. And hoeing is easy. This is part of the reason allotment holders plant in well spaced rows. It may be 'predictable and boring', but saves on the weeding work. If you've got the time to weed everything by hand plant higgle-dee-piggle-dee. if not, rows in the only way! The plot also looks nice when its all clear.
A word of caution, however, some weeds retaliate if you chop their tops off once they are big. So the only answer is to pull them up by hand and, yes, they do eventually give up. (Bindweed and Couch - a tiny bit of root left in will resprout, so if you rotovate a plot full of bind weed or couch, you will have it forever.

[basketcase]

A word of caution, however, some weeds retaliate if you chop their tops off once they are big. So the only answer is to pull them up by hand and, yes, they do eventually give up.

Thanks Oliver

One of the weeds was actually on the site you gave me - it was/is Spurrey. Still can't see the other one anywhere.

This was why I asked about disposal methods - didn't want to hoe and compost something that was either going to retaliate or would spread all over the allotments if I put it in the 'big bins'.

Is 'volunteer crop' a polite name for big weeds you can eat, then?  

[Eristic]

Basically, if you didn't plant it, its a weed so pull it up!

I strongly disagree with the quote, especially on new plots. It is amazing what treasures can be left by previous occupants, or even chance seedlings brought in by birds.

My plots have yielded 4 mature grapevines, a hazel copse, 2 damson trees, several comfrey crowns, black and red currant bushes and a large number of thornless raspberries that almost everyone else on the site has lodged a request for. Always look for and identify anything growing that appears out of the ordinary, and then assess its usefulness before giving it the chop.

Any unidentified plants that do not appear invasive and are not hindering the cultivations can be left until identified.

Volenteers

are seeds germinating from a previous crop and while these are a problem for farmers, there is no reason why gardeners and lotties cannot keep them if they are not causing damage. There is an old song about the subject along the lines of a lonely little onion growing in the petunia border.

[Oliver]

Basically, if you didn't plant it, its a weed so pull it up!

OOps - quite right. Should have said - identify it first. Quite agree there can be a lot of stuff one inherits on a plot. If you can't identify it, then ask the old boys who have been plotting for years - they may well know what it is.

[GrannieAnnie]

(There is an old song about the subject along the lines of a lonely little onion growing in the petunia border)

Wasn't it a lonely little petunia in an onion patch??

[Eristic]

Silly me! Back to front as usual.

No allotment is ever totally free of weeds as the time it takes to walk from one end of the plot to the other is twice as long as weed germination.  Regular use of the hoe between straight rows is easy, leaving any weeds within the crops or close by to be hand weeded on a rotation.

[Oliver]

2) The leaves are lacy on this one, not unlike french marigolds but forest green.  Stands about 6-8" high and also has purple flowers. Can't remember the correct term, but it has lots on one stem, like vetch!  It has a tap root that looks like a tiny parsnip.  I suppose I can hope that it is!

I've been thinking - in the absence of a picture, could this be a fumitory?  She just pulls this up whenever she sees it. Tempted though she is to leave it. She has the yellow kind (its a bit bigger, but with the same lacy leaf) in the garden. Her friend HATES it as it spreads like mad!
Oliver

[basketcase]

Thanks Oliver!

Tell 'her outdoors' it does look like fumitory.  

[Oliver]

Thanks Oliver!

Tell 'her outdoors' it does look like fumitory.  

Thanks Basketcase. She likes fumitory. If it weren't for him, who likes weeding, she would probably leave it in, to her cost!!!