Allotment Gardening Advice Help Chat
Growing => General Gardening => Topic started by: greenie on September 25, 2006, 22:09
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I've heard of people raving about growing their veg in raised beds. Would the beds need a bottom (as in a big version of a pot) or is it simply building an open frame to keep the pieces of wood together? Would things like carrots and potatoes benefit from a raised bed as opposed to planting in the ground with good soil? And, why raised beds anyway? Is it a matter of drainage?
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i dont use raised beds but have been thinking about it for herbs,the reason is i couldnt rotavate the soil (you could with a mantis though,i will use scaffold boards about 6' x 4' so i could access from all sides.
also it will be my daughters patch.
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We have raised beds because we`re on a slight slope,on clay soil,only about 6-8 inches to solid red clay,so have used the decent soil from the paths in the beds,and we have trees so roots were a problem.We have some 2 ft high hottish beds against a wall the the OH is experimenting with and we have a lot of room,paths do take up potential growing ground.
we have a mixture of railway sleepers with brick paths for the pretty bit by the greenhouse,then bigger beds made with wooden posts and gravel boards(not envirinmentally friendly but recycle and should last us out) and shreddings on the path which have broken down nicley and will shortly be put into the beds and new shreddings put on as and when.
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Hi
I have also been thinking about raised beds because I have read that you shouldn't make paths out of bark chipping close to the beds because it zaps the nitrogen out of the soil?
There is a plot by mine that have the gravel board beds but I am thinking of doing the wooden framed beds. How is the best way to do these?
8) 8) 8) 8)
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best way to make a raised bed out of timber is
knock some 2"x2" wooden pegs about 18" long (you can always cut them down if they wont knock in) into each corner of the bed (check the length of your edging board.
nail your edging board to the pegs and knock a few more pegs along the boards (keeping the pegs on the inside) to stiffen it all up.
fill with soil, and hey presto a raised bed.
its much easier with a picture :)
http://www.humeseeds.com/raised.htm
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Great thread - questions being answered here that I wondered too.
I too will be placing raised beds directly onto a clay soil base with very little drainage.
How high do I need to make them?
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Depend on what you're growing. I assume it's similar to container gardening... Most things will need a minimum of 12inches depth of soil. Lettuces only need 4inches, radishes only need 6, but most everything else needs deeper.
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Thanks for advice on building a raised bed. I have printed it out for my hubby and my friends hubby so they can get cracking with their little project ha ha!! Is this the best way to mark off the beds as I don't really need to do it to improve the soil. Have been blessed with a plot with good soil and about a billion worms!! It is just so I can put in proper paths but stop the bark from nicking all the nitrogen and I have manageable sized beds to work with.
I hope this makes sense!!!! :?
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Thanks a mil for the advice on the raised beds.
I didn't know that bark chippings rob the soil of nitrogen (OH just bought a few bags to mulch under the plum tree) :cry:
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Hi, i want to make raised beds, im just waiting for some scaffold boards to come free.
Do i just make the frame, sit it on top of the soil and then fill with topsoil and compost?
is it that easy, or is there more involved?
I was also thinking about making paths inbetween the beds by putting black plastic down and then putting mulch or bark over the top to stop the weeds, is this a good idea?
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please see my personal gallery - I've used the black membrane that lets water through on my paths. When I first set my beds up I did try covering the membrane with bark chippings, but found that the weeds were taking hold rather too easily and I wanted to be able to concentrate my efforts on the beds themselves.
Its also easy to spot the slugs and snails lurking under the membrane, and when (if ever) it pours with rain I can still pootle around my plot as though its a sunny summer's day!
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Hi Milkman, what do you use to anchor the path material down with? I can trip over things very easily (even before going to the pub) so this is quite important to me. Thanks
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black pegs with a flat head that I acquired from the same mail order catalogue as the membrane stuff. the membrane frays a bit at the edges but generally I've found it quite practical.
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Thanks a lot
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Piruvada-our raised beds are about 8"deep,we broke up the deep clay then year by year we add compost and manure to the top soil to hopefully improve the quality.When plants do get their roots down into clay they usually do well.
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So, some people use a base (or membrane) and some don't. Which is better experienced raised-bedders?
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I don't have a base underneath any of my fixed beds (I just use black membrane fabric stuff on the paths).
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With regards to raised beds, does anyone know where the best place would be to get scaffolding boards? I've tried a couple of timber places and scrap yards with no luck!!
I used 2 railway sleepers to anchor down the greenhouse and just about got a hernia moving them, couldn't believe just how heavy they are!!
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contact scaffolding firm , they sell split ones for about a £5 , and new from £15. split ones fail safety issues
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Cheers for that.
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you could also try your local fencing supply timber yard for edging boards, they may sell warped or split ones cheaper than normal. i was lucky and got some at a very good price. :D
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that reminds me...
..i was going to put in some raised beds to plant my asparagus in, when it arrives.
i went to b&q to get materials and ended up in a bit of an face off with a very unhelpful member of staff!!! he patronisingly, when i asked his advice on which wood would be best for the purpose, pointed to all the wood in the timber yard, and told me it was all made of wood. it's all cut, 4 coats of wood preservative applied and all still sitting in the spare room - where it has been for 3 weeks now, really need to get it nailed together!!! those plants will be here soon.
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take one prat of a member of staff . search out general manager .inform him of attitude of prat and that you will be shopping elswhere stick staff member in the manure and see him weeded out of the plot , then leave
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now normally Muntjac i would have stormed out of the shop or complained but i'd already stropped out of Tesco that morning as i could not get a breakfast 2, yes 2 minutes after they'd stopped serving them - even though all the breakfastables were in serving dishes in front of me. i was very intent on getting wood and building the raised beds that weekend. as it happens i didn't need to report the little person to the manager as another customer did that for me, then he came back and told me how disgusted he was.
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nice one .... maybe he wont be working no more .. karl
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So, some people use a base (or membrane) and some don't. Which is better experienced raised-bedders?
When I make my raised beds, I just mow the grass/weeds close to the ground. Set the 2 x 10 board frame over the mowed area, then lay flattened cardboard boxes (plain brown ones with no printing, labels, decals, etc) - single layered - inside the frame to smother the grass/weeds. Fill with soil/compost and Ta Da!! :D
The cardboard will rot up in about a year, which is usually long enough to prevent re-growth of the grass - not always the weeds though. It beats sending the cardboard to the recycler.
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good idea bill mate . have seen styrene used on top of the cardboard .it really warms the beds up :wink:
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A raised bed system is best built if your soil is on badly drained or clay.
It is not worth all the work to install it if you have a decent soil.
Mark out an area no wider than 4ft across and no longer than about 12 ft long and then dig it over to open the ground up to assist better drainage.
You can use anything to hold the beds together, such as paving slabs,timber.
Depending on how deep you need the bed to be, on top of the ground level newly dug soil you can use anything that will compost down....woollens,leaves.grass cuttings.wet newspaper ect, as you will never dig down that deep again.
Dig out the path next to the bed and put the top soil (if it's any good) on top of your compost layer...it's wasted as a path..and if you can get another layer of compost...not woollies this time..on top of that even better..If your going to have a path the other side the bed use the soil from that side as well.
It's hard work,but you only do it once..
Raised beds can be covered with poly tunnel plastic to make a mini greenhouse and crop earlier..
Never walk on the bed once to have made it...thats why you make them 4ft wide so you can reach across...and 12 ft long because you will get fed up of walking around it and walk across it if it's any longer.
The deeper the bed the more crops you can get out..Needs to be deep for carrots,parsnips and root crops..Firm bed walked once when DRY for brassicas..cabbaged ect..Use black plastic if you want to get a crop of mushrooms out over the top..Endless possibilities..easier to deter pests like cabbage white, as you can cover with fleece.
Get as many earthworms into the bed as you can find, as they will do all the work :lol:
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Ahhhh smallholder I couldn't have put it better myself!
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you've just solved a huge problem for me. My pal and I have taken on a neglected allotment, and I am making small inroads into it - but like cricket, rain stops play most days !! But I'll do as suggested, and get raised beds up on the rest of the ground - we'll be able to get cracking planting up in the spring and will be able to clean the plots properly over the year. Thannks again for sharing your ideas, you are a STAR. Jean
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Whoops, it was Billins idea that took my fancy - too hard to dig at the moment, Small holder, but I will use your ideas to get rid of my hubby's beige jumpers !!!! Jean
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How about trying our ten -tub veggie plot idea described in'Growing healthy vegetables in Spain'. Having tried it out it is the way we will go if ever resticted to gardening from a chair. Having grown 18 veg in three 80 cm diameter 70 cm high tubs last summer one could grow a liitle of every thing. What worked well was two story growing. We grew a multitude of relatively shallow growing varieties but purposelsy grew sweet potatoes which grew below the root levels of everything else, the greenery drapped over the side of the tub to disguise it. When we had harvested the last of the tomatoes and peppers for Christmas we then dug out 12 very worthwhile sweet potatoes.
Incidently we save compost by lining the bottom of the tubs with upturned plastic flower pots and an offcut of a foam fish box.
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the idea behind raised beds is to have a deeper depth of good loam soil on top of basically crappy clay or poor soils its aids the roots of carrots etc being friable (loosely compacted ) it makes the tap root go down deeper for water and nourishment .if your soil is already great stuff you really do not need to do the deep bed thing .ok if ya got a medical problem with bending etc then high raised beds are great for you, it is not the be all and end all of gardening ,it (in my opinion ) is another fad in gardening and unfortunatly some folks with great land have just topped them up with more soil . if you have poor soil then it is easy enough to make it better i answered a question onthis subject on another site and this is the portion of note this lady has deep clay soil when she turns it over the lumps come up so i gave her this advice
take a sharp spade and chop at them with it . make sure you keep your feet out of the way . as you chop it down throw a hand full sand on it just keep chopping it when you have broken it down to egg sized lumps is fine to start clay is waterproof and forms a pan in which any water sits on the plot . it is formed from very small particles which bond together to form hard lumps as u see . to break it down you need somthing to split the particles and allow water to go through ,.adding humus ( compost /manure ) add fibre to the soil which also breaks up these particles and acts to hold the soil together eventually becoming loam the best soil with sand it breaks open the particels and allows water to flow through . for a definituion of your soil you can pick up a lump in your hand and squeeze it tight . now release it .if it falls apart slowly in crumbles you have a loam with high fibre content , if you do it and it falls completly apart through your fingers you have a sandy loam . for clay it just stays in a lump , by adding components from the other two soil samples you achieve real rich loam . to maintain this you add more manure in my case a period of 3 years .. hope that helps
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I'm in year 2 of my allotment. I put raised beds in from the start and I'm happy that I did.
My reason for doing so differed slightly from most of the previous posters. Being new, I found it difficult to know where to start with a massive rectangle of brown earth. I found breaking the space up into beds, helped me mentally manage the plot better. I could go to the plot with the intention of digging over 2 or 3 of the beds, and see progress in a way I couldn't when it was just raw earth.
I don't cover the paths with anything. I strim the grass regularly, and eventually only the grass survives. You do lose a significant amount of space this way, since the paths between beds need to be wider than they would otherwise, but I take that on the chin.
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They didn't need to be raised to do that, though :)
Lots of people divide their plots up into beds with grass paths in order to manage them properly :)