Allotment Gardening Advice Help Chat
Smallhold Farming and Rural Living => Livestock and Growing on a larger scale => Topic started by: tosca100 on July 04, 2015, 17:20
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Meet Milly and Tilly, our new goats and the next step in becoming more self sufficient. They are mother and daughter, bred and looved by friends of our's (who will happily take them back if we don't get on) and we feel really honoured that they felt they would have a good home here. OH has done his first milking, only the second time he has done it and she is new to it too so all in all it went quite well.
Millie has already sussed out where the feed is....Tilly is busy seeing what's on offer in the shed
(http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/tosca100-dog/DSC00068_zpszrx11yrj.jpg) (http://s673.photobucket.com/user/tosca100-dog/media/DSC00068_zpszrx11yrj.jpg.html)
First milk
(http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/tosca100-dog/DSC00076_zpswmac1stt.jpg) (http://s673.photobucket.com/user/tosca100-dog/media/DSC00076_zpswmac1stt.jpg.html)
The ducks and chooks are curious
(http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/tosca100-dog/DSC00082_zpssfkncalg.jpg) (http://s673.photobucket.com/user/tosca100-dog/media/DSC00082_zpssfkncalg.jpg.html)
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Lovely :D
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They look fun 😀, are you going to make cheese?
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Yes, and yoghurt. We will probably send the excess next door when time is short and they can either use it or feed it to the pigs. I am going to have to cut down on other things so that I'm not rushing to learn new skills. We are hoping Venka will milk while we are away and have till October to get her hooked. She's very excited about us having goats, she takes milk from he sheep but only gets a cup full.
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They are a fabulous addition Tosca, and I am
slightly very envious. Will they have to stay under cover in the winter?
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What a pair beauties! I didn't realise goats would be so peaceable while being milked. We might just have to get some ourselves...
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They are a fabulous addition Tosca, and I am slightly very envious. Will they have to stay under cover in the winter?
They will be on deep litter in their stone shed in winter, but because the sun is so strong here, even on a frosty day, as long as it's fine they will go out
What a pair beauties! I didn't realise goats would be so peaceable while being milked. We might just have to get some ourselves...
They're sweet, though the kid can be a bit cheeky. Considering Milly was only milked for the first time a week ago she is really good, especially as Dave is a complete novice. Once they have settled properly the kid will be shut out at milking time, she keeps pinching Milly's food. She doesn't suckle any more though.
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They are beautiful!
I love my goats, didn't think anything would replace the ducks in my affections but love the goats more than anything else I have here! Milly sounds like a dream goat if she has settled so well into milking. :D
They are such lovely, sweet, personable creatures, the dog version of the ruminant world. My 6 all have their own personality and place in the hierarchy.
I can't recommend the Mary Karlin book "Artisan Cheese Making at Home" enough if you can get hold of it. Very straightforward layout that starts with the really simple and basic and builds up to the advanced so you gradually build up skills and experience.
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What a stunning pair, I'm very envious I would love goats one day
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They're lovely Ema. they've settled in really well and we get 2 litres of milk to play with every day. A lot has ad to be frozen till we have more time for making cheese, but I make a lot of soft cheese and mozzarella and halloumi, plus yoghurt. OH is out walking them now, he loves them
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Two litres! That's far more than I expected. I thought a cup or two would be as much as you'd get. Goats are really starting to appeal even more. Wonder if it would be feasible to walk goats and dogs at the same time :)
I know nothing about keeping goats for milk. I must find out more. Do they need to bear young regularly to produce milk? I must check to see if John has a book.
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Hi Snoop. They are pretty easy once you have the basics....like a five foot fence around their paddock. There is no reason why you can't walk goats with dogs, our's are very good with them and only don't go because of other dogs in the village...they are not streetwise. They only need a baby every two years, some even longer, to keep you in milk. We milk twice a day at the moment but will be dropping to once for the winter, partly to give her more use from her food (there will be less milk) but also because we will be going to the UK for a week so our neighbour will be milking. We have a pet sitter for the rest of the animals, but he has never milked. She lets us know when she wants milking (she is just by the back door) and gets straight onto her platform when she sees the feed bowl. Other breeds will give more/less milk. If you invest in a cream separator you can get cream (so butter), or you can leave the milk to sit for a few days for the cream to rise, but it gets 'goatier' as it sits. It took me a week or two to get used to the milk in coffee, but I always use it from the last milking and it just tastes creamy now. I prefer to freeze the milk for cheese for the same reason, you get goaty cheese if the milk is kept in the fridge for a few days.
For food, they get any spare branches from edible trees (info on the net) an hour or more browsing the verges/hedgerows around the outskirts of the village. You will be able to do the same i expect, but check your local restrictions. I believe you can't let them roam about in the UK now, but I might be wrong. In Spain you might even have a village herder who will take them out for the day as we do here if we wanted him to, saves on food for a nominal cost. They get goat nuts and oats wen milked...with a tiny amount for baby, with veggies. Most spare veg...dying beans...maize stalks (not cobs) cabbages, courgettes, cues, watermelon, beans, chard etc, toms and peppers in small quantities, weeds, sunflowers. If you chuck anything over the fence there's a stampede of goats, ducks and chooks all going for their favourite bits. Hay is available at all times. They burp a lot and some people give them bicarb in a bowl for them to help themselves, but I think that's when they are on a restricted diet. Any poultry food needs to be kept out of reach. There is plenty of info on their care and what they can and can't eat. Our's are friendly and cheerful.
One thing I have picked up, some goats produce very goaty milk, so if you can, taste it. Our's came from a friend so it wasn't an issue. And although you can keep one, they get very clingy towards their keeper and will try and follow, so two is best, like we have, mother and daughter. Mind you, they recognise Dave's car turning into the lane though they've never seen it, so I always know when he is home.
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If you chuck anything over the fence there's a stampede of goats, ducks and chooks all going for their favourite bits.
That's just such a lovely picture in my head now :lol:
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Haha, will try and get a pic
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OK, I'm sold. Maybe not next year (too many other projects already in motion for next year) but maybe the year after. I once tried unpasteurised goat's milk and was amazed at how much cream there was on the top. The milk was different but not objectionable. And I positively love goat's milk yoghurt and cheese.
A question Mr Snoop will ask: how big is your paddock for them? Fencing won't be an issue, as we have lots of two-metre stuff and sturdy rebar for the posts. Do you tether them ever when they're feeding 'in the wild'?
I live in the middle of absolutely nowhere, surrounded by forest, so as long as they didn't get into the neighbouring vineyard and the vegetable patch and at the fruit trees, they'd have plenty to go at. Hay and alfalfa can easily be purchased here. Not sure about goat nuts. I'll have to find out.
I reckon a local shepherd who has a few goats would let us leave goats with him to be 'serviced'.
The forestry agent thoroughly approves of goats as a way to reduce the forest fire hazard. There's plenty of shrubs they could have a go at round here. I'd be glad to see them kept down for less effort than hacking away at them with a mattock!
All in all, a great idea. Glad you get so much pleasure from yours.
Haha, will try and get a pic
Brilliant. Mr Snoop is a bit less convinced (he'll be putting up the fence and making some kind of stabling for them...), so anything that will encourage him is to the good.
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Once you have a bond with your goats, they know their walks and a few bits of bread in your pocket, you just let them do as they want, they will come back to you or go home if they get a fright. Dave is letting Mum off now (Kid Tilly is free) once he gets past the houses. The only hiccup has been when a stray dog suddenly appeared and they made towards home, but stopped when they saw people. The goat man takes about a hundred at a time, they know where they're going and show the new ones the ropes. When they come home he shouts for the owner and the goat/s peel off and waits for the gate to be opened. He doesn't wait so if the owner goes out the goat settles down to chew the cud. Unfortunately at our end of the village we have a shepherd who doesn't take goats.
Tethering is an option but we personally aren't keen. There are jackals around here and a tethered animal is a sitting target. They are in the poultry paddock which has no grass, plenty of weeds, and there was a stand of self sown sunflowers which kept them happy for weeks. The last one was finally pushed down yesterday. We will fence off a patch to sow next year. They don't need a lot of space, if you walk them and provide browse and hay, plus any old veg, they spend a lot of time chewing the cud. They need shelter from rain and sun but are really easy to keep and take up little time. Milking is literally less than five minutes once you get going. The occasional brush and hoof trim, parasite control. Bingo. Oh and picking up poo a couple of times a week if you have a tiny paddock.
Tell Mr Snoop he'll love 'em. Two goats, one to kid on alternate years, boys for curry (but not our's!) or sell, always a market. The only down side. Kids are soooo cute :D
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We built up to 7 dairy goats producing about 60 pints a day in peak season - so we had to do something with the excess milk - so we bought 60 weaners from Rother Valley College where I was doing various agri courses. The goats eventually led to about 60 Angora Goats and the weaners led to 13 outdoor sows and a boar. It also seemed like a good idea to buy a couple of three week calves. One, an Angus, was a late developer and was an interesting character as an 18 month old bull. The last two we had were Limousins which could jump a stock fence, such fun.
It is said, with some justification, that when two dairy goats get together that the first thing they do is establish an escape committee.
Now, in my dotage I have reverted to fruit and veg, but I do miss the pigs, they were characters.
Christine is still a national judge of Angora Goats. She didn't have a show this year, but we have been all over in the past; Great Yorkshire, Three Counties, Royal Welsh and Devon County to name but a few.
Malcolm
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Right, that's it. You've convinced me, Tosca. Not next year but definitely the year after. (Next year's ventures are beekeeping, pressure canning, water-bath bottling and getting my previous vegetable patch back up and running).
All told, we have about 12 acres, but by far the majority of it is forest. A friend of ours has bought some land up the valley from us and I know he'd be keen to have goats browse the forest areas to to keep them tidy. So browsing won't be a problem at all. In fact, if they browse the brambles round our well down to the ground, they'll be doing me a big favour. And as for walks, the cats already come with us and the dogs (occasionally for a couple of miles or so), which the locals find astounding. So if the goats follow (or lead) the troupe, that'll raise even more eyebrows! Always good to keep the locals guessing what the mad English folk are up to now. :D
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Sounds ideal Snoop. We only have half an acre but are almost self sufficient in food. We still have to buy flour, coffee, meat (for Dave) and oil. But we won't be going any further, We had 12 kilos of honey from the hie which I am using instead of sugar where I can, canning etc well under way. Full larder and freezers. :D
Malcolm....I daren't tell the OH what you write, but though pigs are generally kept in pens here and we have the space, we have decided that is a step too far and we would want them to roam more. Of course we would have to have two and with only one meat eater..... also, December is bad enough with the neighbours all slaughtering, not sure if I could cope with Gerald and Herbert being next. No abbatoirs around here! :ohmy:
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Tosca, outdoor pigs do have advantages and disadvantages, but it was great to see them foraging outdoors. They do show there personality. Once weaned the piglets were brought into a 30' by 43' stock tunnel (free to good home, buyer dismantles and collects) and then taken to market or the abattoir. We have never had any trouble eating our own stock, in fact I followed in my Dad's footsteps and kept rabbits for meat which I killed myself. Hard-hearted devil me.
Malcolm
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We've decided against pigs because Mr Snoop wouldn't be able to send them off to slaughter. We once spent a week in Cornwall next door to a field with half a dozen pigs in it. He spent most of the time going to the fence to watch what they were up to and scratching their backs. Almost the only time he could drag himself away was when we went up to the farmhouse for afternoon tea and their homemade clotted cream!
Plus, we can't run a freezer so a whole pig would be more than we could store.
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Tosca, outdoor pigs do have advantages and disadvantages, but it was great to see them foraging outdoors. They do show there personality. Once weaned the piglets were brought into a 30' by 43' stock tunnel (free to good home, buyer dismantles and collects) and then taken to market or the abattoir. We have never had any trouble eating our own stock, in fact I followed in my Dad's footsteps and kept rabbits for meat which I killed myself. Hard-hearted devil me.
Malcolm
I admire those who believe if you eat meat you should be prepared to raise your own given the opportunity, and I have told OH he can have pigs if he wants to, just don't involve me! But having gone next door on slaughter day to help them out he has decided he might go veggie! :lol: The steer was worse. And to have that much meat for one would be daft. You can't sell home reared and slaughtered meat as there are no standards enforced, it has to be for you own consumption.
Interestingly, although welfare standards are woeful generally, (more through ignorance than cruelty) the owners of the beasts who have tended them all year are not present when the deed is done, they emerge to do the dressing later.
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The abattoir where we used to take pigs and cattle had to reserved part of the layerage for 'injured' animals and also had to have a vet on hand when he was slaughtering. The vet he had was Spanish so, out of interest, he asked what the rules were in Spain and she said 'oh, we don't do anything like this'.
We had no trouble selling meat. They did eventually bring in a rule that meat had to be transported in a refrigerated van, even the 5 miles to our house and that clobbered us. Because we only had a small herd the pork was very high quality. In fact whenever we took pork pigs to Selby market we always got top price. We sold half pigs, old goats to the West Indian community and young goats to the Muslim community. The Muslims used Halal methods to kill the animals but I insisted that they did at my premises so that I new that the job was done properly. I was very impressed with the care the Muslims took, causing no stress to the animals.
When I started Phase I City and Guilds Agriculture almost the first week we were given a chicken and told to kill it. That tested the resolve of a few. I strongly believe that if you keep animals of any sort you must be prepared to do the unpleasant jobs.
Malcolm