Diesel

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gobs

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Diesel
« Reply #90 on: December 30, 2007, 09:03 »
Quote from: "sweet nasturtium"
So that's one million hectares for 50 days supply (assuming av. 10 mile car journey - we're not talking trucks at the mo and don't argue :roll: )

1million hectares being 10% of England's agricultural growing area.
so we could provide 350 days worth per year and only be using up 70% of England's agricultural space.

That leaves the whole of Scotland for growing the biodiesel for the trucks.  (for getting the pine wood down South to build Ruby's ecovillage :wink: ).


You are joking, are you, Sweet? :?

And don't dare to move any remaining pine, are there any? :shock:
"Words... I know exactly what words I'm wanting to say, but somehow or other they is always getting squiff-squiddled around." R Dahl

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Rampant_Weasel

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Diesel
« Reply #91 on: December 30, 2007, 09:50 »
i think even hydrogen is the wrong way to go, electric cars are the answer imo, there is a film called 'who killed the electric car' made by sony
gm made one but they ended up being crushed under pressure from the us govt and oil companies.powered by a new battery they could cruise at 70 but i cant remember how long the held the charge for - it was quiet a while tho.interesting film, sure u can find it on p2p networks :wink:

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gobs

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Diesel
« Reply #92 on: December 30, 2007, 16:34 »
Thanks, RW, shall have a little look around.

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gobs

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Diesel
« Reply #93 on: January 01, 2008, 13:41 »
Quote from: "WG."
It is the scale of the problem that is scary.

19 million vehicles on British roads on the Friday before Christmas.  Let's assume that the average journey on that SINGLE DAY used 50 litres.

950,000,000 litres of biodiesel would occupy approx a million hectares (33,263,305 allotments) for a whole year to grow enough rape seed oil for one day's consumption.  Add to that that rape is cruciferous and is therefore susceptible to clubroot.  Normal rotation would mean growing in one year out of 5 or even 7.

One million hectares is approx 10% of the TOTAL agricultural area in England.


You are not far out there WG at all, rather a bit under, 'cos that's what is officially calculated: 1 370 000 ha to provide 5% of transport(only) bio-fuels.

Nat non-food crop centre

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WG.

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Diesel
« Reply #94 on: January 01, 2008, 13:49 »
Thanks gobs, so I'd figure over 10% of the entire UK agricultural area needed to grow only 5% of our road fuel requirements.

Which neatly ties in with my original reply ... http://www.chat.allotment-garden.org/viewtopic.php?p=138057#138057  :wink:

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sweet nasturtium

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Diesel
« Reply #95 on: January 04, 2008, 15:07 »
Quote from: "DD."
Quote from: "WG."
Quote from: "sweet nasturtium"
But the great thing about veg oil fuel is that, if you really need to, you can also use it as food.  You can't eat diesel.
I think you are muddying the water here.  I will use a thousand times as many litres of fuel in a year than I will consume as food.

Maybe someone can do the arithmetic : how many hectares of rape seed would be needed to grow the 2500 litres of fuel which I will use each year?


According to this site..

http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_yield.html#alph

One hectare will produce 1190 litres of oil.

2.1 Hectares required to produce yearly consumption.

That equals 21,000 sq metres, which equates to 70 of my 300 sq m allotment!


2500 litres of fuel per year?  I do far less than that, probably around 1000 a year, I would only assume one car per family, so you're taking far lower numbers.

I like the DD project link, but they also stated this as a fact, which I would like to question when I have a quiet moment.

"• Making and transporting one kilogram of nitrogen fertilizer releases 3.7 kg of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere."

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sweet nasturtium

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Diesel
« Reply #96 on: January 16, 2008, 22:34 »
Right.

Why are Tescos now charging £10.00 for ten litres of veg oil?

How can it possibly be cheaper to buy it in two litre bottles from L*dl, where it's 78p a litre????

Where do you get yours from WG?

I'm right steamed off.

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WG.

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Diesel
« Reply #97 on: January 16, 2008, 22:51 »
Last stuff I bought was 60-odd pence per litre.  As I said above, I don't use veg oil in the winter.

Supply and demand I suppose  :(

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Roy S

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Re: Diesel
« Reply #98 on: January 28, 2009, 11:09 »
Well I've read this with a lot of interest, I've been running all the family cars we've had since 1998 in Biodiesel, so far covering around 150,000 miles in total.
I used to fill in my tax return form to declare it too, until my tax office returned the form  saying "we are no longer taxing people who produce less than 2500 litres a year"...RESULT!!! :D

I think there have been a lot of myths and legends that have been perpetuated over the years about biodiesel, most of them can be eventually traced back to either ignorance on the owners part or very poorly produced biodiesel.

The most often spouted ones are:
It turns to white jelly in your fuel filter and It causes all the dirt in your fuel tank to enter the filter....etc etc etc
If Biodiesel has turned to a white jelly in your fuel filter, it was not washed and filtered properly, the white jelly is soap that hasnt been removed properly if at all.
Biodiesel is a fantastic cleaner, and is great stuff to use as a biodegradable alternative to 3 in 1 oil etc, and as a result it cleans the styrene and wax based deposits that normal dino diesel leaves on the inside of a fuel tank over the years. This is normally taken care of by changing the fuel filter once at around the 500 mile mark after changing over to 50% bio, future fuel fliter changes after that should only need to be done exactly the same as the manufacturers recommend.
Well produced bio is actually better for most diesel engines (lucas diesel pumps being the exception!) as when the sulphur was removed from forecourt diesel, they removed an important part of the lubricating properties of dino diesel, as a result top ends of modern diesel engines running sulphur free fuel wear at a higher rate than thier predecessors, but biodiesel is actually as good at lubricating if not better than dino diesel.
I am lucky in that a friend of mine owns a pub/restuarant and has to pay to get used cooking oil taken away (costs him around £30 a week!)
Every couple of weeks I now take 200 litres off him so both of us are happy, also means 200 litres of oil get recycled.

The costs saved are tremendous even allowing for the methanol and sodium hydroxide
I think it works out at around 12p a litre to make (being honest I think its less but havent stopped to work it out yet!)

Recently after filling the tank of our Xantia to the absolute brim from empty I did work out that it cost a shade under £10 to fill up.

As for the shenanagans going on with deforrestation to grow biofuels, it really hacks me off, but the oil obtained from palm oil is unusable as biofuel in wintertime over here in the UK, it would be solid at temps below 5-9 degrees C!!
A much better alternative would be Jatropha curcas this plant grows like a weed, favours arrid areas so wouldnt drain precious water reserves, and would also enable third world coutries to benefit from renewable energy sources.
As per normal though our energy requirements are being taken care of by greed driven opportunists, rather than people caring for the environment.

Blimey I'll shut up because I've just realised I've written a huge post on an old topic!!!...but its something I'm pretty enthusiastic about  8)
If you think it can't get any worse, you just lack sufficient imagination.

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Oscar Too

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Re: Diesel
« Reply #99 on: January 28, 2009, 13:36 »
Hi Roy

INteresting post and welcome to the forum

Point of clarification - when you say "Biodiesel" do you mean recycled veg oil used at 100%, or commercially-available biodiesel which iirc is 90:10 dinodiesel:RVO?

I'm less interested in biodiesel now - we get through 600 litres of dinodiesel a year, most of which is discretionary, so even quite large price rises had little impact on our budget.  If I had space and facilities though, I'd be interested in reclaiming WVO as an experiment.

Completely support what you are saying about recycling veg oil.  It would be terrible if food production were supplanted by biodiesel production.  Veggie diesel should be recycled veg oil, not fresh.

BTW when I used SVO, my lucas pump didn't have any problems.

Best

Oscar

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Roy S

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Re: Diesel
« Reply #100 on: January 28, 2009, 14:53 »
Hi Oscar by Biodiesel, I mean 100% transesterified waste veg oil (B100). I like you have had no problems with lucas pumps myself, and have run a peugeot 205 and a landrover series 3 on B100 for over 80,000 miles between them with no ill effects at all (both with lucas pumps). Most of the problems arise I believe with unwashed biodiesel, the seals inside lucas pumps being more intollerant of any methanol residues although I have heard of people having issues having run SVO with lucas pumps, I think it all depends on what type of oil and any additives may be present. I think biodiesel is another of those areas where urban myths run riot, with little truth and a lot of ignorance goes a long way.

Biodiesel is available in various blends, with B20 (20% biodiesel 80% dino diesel) B50, and B100 being the most common.

I'm keeping an eye on temperature at the moment and for any prolonged spells of frost I put a couple of gallons of dino diesel in the tank to help raise the gell point of the fuel, though in the last cold spell I forgot, and had no problems with starting or running even at temperatures of -8C 8)

Last check I had I was getting 52-6 to the gallon on a run out of the Xantias (though I do a steady 60 on motorway...Captain slow, I know!) the worst I get is 42-45 around town.

But that gave me a range of over 650 miles before I filled up again, and all for less than £10...and is carbon neutral too.

It is fiddly to produce at first but once you dispell the myths, and start producing bio you soon get into the swing of it, and if you can get old oil it can save a fair bit of money.

their are a lot of websites out there that are really great for info, and other sites just trying to flog thier stuff for daft prices. I'll post some links if it doesnt break any forum protocols and anyones interested?

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Oscar Too

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Re: Diesel
« Reply #101 on: January 28, 2009, 16:08 »
Yes, I run an old XUD BX and get 50 mpg on dino-diesel, up to 62mpg on a run to Scotland.

I'm sure people would be interested in the production, and it's fine to post links here.  It'll be interesting to see whether you post the same sites that I'm aware of.

I've tried to get people with space interested in processing WVO, but no joy so far.  SWMBO would kill me and transesterify my corpse if I start messing about with it in our two-up, two-down terraced house.  Perhaps if we move to Wales or somewhere...

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Roy S

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Re: Diesel
« Reply #102 on: January 28, 2009, 21:31 »
Dont you love the ride on hydropnuematic citroens eh?...wouldnt swap them for anything....well except for another one (C5 diesel next year hopefully!)

the two main sites I read are these:

http://www.vegetableoildiesel.co.uk/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=10

the forum is great, and the processors/reactors the company produce are good

and the main one is this:

http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/frm/f/449605551

on the above site if you do a search for Graham Lamings processor, or indeed any of his posts you wont go far wrong the guy is a guru when it comes to biodiesel production on a budget...there are more sites but those should set anyone interested in producing thier own fuel of on a good start. If it helps just one person to start recycling waste oil and saving money then it can only be a good thing.

Oh and anyone thinking you need alsorts of complicated kinds of containers and processors....I just use a 5 gallon burco boiler for producing mine in 5 gallon batches. This will be getting upgraded this year with a Graham Laming type processor though hopefully  8)
« Last Edit: January 28, 2009, 21:43 by Roy S »

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oldbean

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Re: Diesel
« Reply #103 on: April 10, 2009, 17:23 »
Electrolysis of water produces two hydrogen atoms & one oxygen.

Burning hydrogen recombines two hydrogen atoms with one oxgen to produce water as a by-product.

No net loss.

No net loss of atoms maybe, but there will not be a loss-less energy conversion.

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pumpkinpatch

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Re: Diesel
« Reply #104 on: April 10, 2009, 20:10 »
yeah when using veg oil filter before use and depending on if your car is new you might need some mods doing to it older cars dont need moding but the newer cars do



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