Allotment Gardening Advice Help Chat
Poultry and Pets => The Hen House => Topic started by: mumofstig on December 06, 2016, 21:29
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https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-measures-to-protect-poultry-against-avian-flu
Keep them safe....
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Mine are in a pen so I can cover it. But the allotment co-op hens will struggle as they only have a small shed and open runs with no cover. Not sure what they will do about it. :blush :(
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We've put a blog entry up about it. I think those with free rangers or larger runs are going to struggle most. Covering the run is the crucial part, but those with smaller houses and no run will need to get something in place fairly fast to comply - not so easy!
http://www.chickens.allotment-garden.org/poultry-diary/1150/european-avian-flu-outbreak-measures-to-protect-in-uk/
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Sent the link to my daughter. She has two fairly small runs but not sure how she will be able to cover them to comply, maybe a tarp?
Thanks for the blog link, Cara
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Mine are already going bonkers about being kept in. They are virtually climbing the walls and doing their Max Wall type strut up and down in front of the gate! What fun, en? :tongue2:
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I've got 3 chickens and 4 runner ducks (1 being a drake..) they have a shed and 2 connecting runs the larger is quite big and will be a nightmare to cover especially as we're on a hill and quite exposed 😩 was also thinking (several) tarps, and hope there are no strong winds
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Thanks for the heads up!
Fortunatly most of my run is covered, but looking at the omlet website they don't havea huge amount at the moment, so I've just ordered some tarp from Amazon for this evening delivery!
Talking selfishly it's such a shame by birds won't get to free range when I'm home more over Christmas!
Hannah
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My big run is walk in with a wooden structure, so we added a roof of clear corrugated plastic. This was years ago when our then next door neighbour (she who fed dozens of scruffy town pigeons in her garden every day) kicked off during the last bird flu scare ::) It wasn't too expensive to do and has lasted very well.
Maybe some posts knocked it, a few cross beams and corrugated plastic would work for some runs :unsure: The plastic could be taken off next spring if your run is low, to stop the hens getting too hot.
The eglu has its clear plastic winter cover on, so both lots protected although they won't be very happy about not being able to kick around in the garden.
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Just to confirm that all UK Executives have now released the same restrictions. As such the Avian Flu Restrictions are now applicable to any poultry or captive bird keepers within the UK. I have spoken with DEFRA and those who fail to comply will be looking at a hefty fine. As such, those with outdoor flocks will need to implement containment or covering ASAP. These restrictions will be in place until 05th January 2017.
I personally would get tarps for covering and if no run a quick B&Q or local DIY store trip for weld mesh and posts would be cheapest and fast way to contain. It wouldn't surprise me if the restrictions are kept in place beyond 05th January unfortunately.
I can imagine the headaches people are getting from their flock right now! My ex-battery girls in particular would have been hatching escape plans and making sure the entire neighbourhood knew of their displeasure :)
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I can see this this will be problematical for 100's if not thousands of back yard keepers. It would be good if those with innovative solutions could share them so that those affected may be able to find a solution to suit them. :)
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I am surprised that many don't have covered runs. We have always had this to stop the ground being muddy when they are kept in because of bad weather and so to avoid problems with their feet (crusted mud on their talons is a devil to shift especially if you have some unfriendly birds!). The problem we have had is that the eglu walk in run has holes in its upper mesh that enables sparrows to fly in and out. We have covered them over with scaffolding debris netting to stop the birds, but still allow light in for the girls.
The advice from DEFRA is to cover the runs due to droppings from migrant birds that may be infected. You can get very cheap tarps from pound land but they don't last long in our experience. We use thick clear plastic sheeting tied down with bungee ropes, so that light is there but no rain or bird droppings!
Our small run was extended today for the two newbies that are separate to those in the eglu run (but one is ill and indoors) using some wired panels that we had, cable tied together and then covered with plastic.
Birds are not happy, but at least we have complied with the ruling in case neighbours were to see our hens out and about - can't wait for the vocal protest tomorrow morning.....
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I think it depends on the height of your run and its suitability to take a roof. Our big run is a converted pergola, so was easy to roof and once we did it, we wondered why we hadn't done it before. Our lot love it and rush back if even the slightest drop of rain falls when they are in the garden. They don't 'do' weather ;)
Its not too bad if you only have a small coop and run set-up. If wooden, they tend to have a wire mesh roof supported by a wooden frame that is fairly easy to cover. Thinking about it, we roofed Alphie's old wooden coop and run set-up for him and his 2 girls with a couple of sheets of that opaque plastic roofing. It let diffused light in, but didn't get too hot, both of which are considerations for a low roofed run.
If you have a home built larger run, it could be a lot more difficult to cover, especially if it currently doesn't have a roof. A tarp would need a fair bit of support to stop water pooling in it and dragging it down, plus a lot of tethering in windy areas. It might be easier to put something up inside to reduce the run area and then cover it. It maybe worth trying to get hold of an old pop-up gazebo, tent frame or similar, covering the top, then netting off any gaps between it and the top of the run to stop wild birds getting in. A sort of run within a run, rather than worry about adapting an existing structure.
For free rangers, especially if they have a decent sized flock, this must all be a major headache.
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So any free range eggs we see in the supermarket will be bogus or from farmers breaking the law !
The new egg boxes are bound to bump the price up.
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Still can sell eggs as free range as the confinement is due to DEFRA requirement.
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But the allotment co-op hens will struggle as they only have a small shed and open runs with no cover. Not sure what they will do about it. :blush :(
I had a thought about that. Could they relocate fruit cages for the time being and get the tops covered in plastic? Some of the plot holders on our site take their fruit cages down for the winter anyway, so there may be some ready dismantled that could be pressed into emergency use.
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I've had a notice put up on our allotment notice board.
I remember the last time this happened. Lots of us poultry keepers with small runs were covering them with cheap Ikea shower curtains (other brands are available).
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Thanks for the heads up everyone, I've just spent the last 45 minutes securing the run with every scrap of tarp n cable ties I could find. I just had enough! Will try and secure it better tomorrow when it's light ;)
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My two girls are free range so I've ordered some 19mm mesh netting from pestfix to make a run using the fence as an upright. The "Biosecurity and preventing disease in captive birds within a Prevention Zone" gives lots of relevant advice and states in many places that one should do what is 'practical'. Although a covering for the run would be ideal, and is advised, where I live it's open countryside high up so very windy, and a tarp is not practical. I have no garage or shed or other place to put them and it's impossible to have them in the house with me, so the mesh run will have to suffice. I've removed the wild bird feeder from the garden.
It is well worth reading the document at https://www.gov.uk/guidance/avian-influenza-bird-flu#prevention-zone
Good luck everyone!
Ali.
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debris netting and canes in a corner of the open run next to the shed. Is working well at the moment. Just hope we don't get any high winds. I have just covered my closed in run in polythene.
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I'm off to my daughter's tomorrow armed with netting to cover the open runs and a small tarp to cover the area where the food and water is outside the nest boxes, plus a lot of clothes pegs to secure the netting.
Hope it does the job.
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Well first day today with them being kept locked up ;) Well what I did was switched runs. I have the covered Eglu walk in, split to stop pecking and a Malaga with the old un in it, so I moved my old one to the eglu and the two new ones to the Malaga. It worked well :) I carried each bird to the runs and their feet never touched the outside :D.
They only started shouting if they saw me in the garden :lol: only 29 days to go 8)
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Cara sent out a special newsletter on this. It's pretty obvious DEFRA are taking the threat seriously - the cost to the industry is staggering. It's a particularly nasty strain, if poultry get it they are dead. In fact they'd probably start culls like they did with foot & mouth. Claiming they're pets won't cut it - remember the Hindu temple whose sacred bull got culled for TB?
So some of the replies Cara has had are concerning to say the least - comments on the lines of I can't keep the poor things indoors, it doesn't apply to me in my garden and top of the list 'we don't have wild birds, just the blackbirds who visit' :wacko:
Fact is that a few people not cooperating can cause a massive problem for us all. I bet certain interests would love to take small scale keepers out of the market or force compulsory registration onto all.
Hopefully this will be just another panic but we need to take it very seriously.
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More a question than a reply: Why a 30 day restriction please?
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More a question than a reply: Why a 30 day restriction please?
Its a quarantine measure. If we can keep the domestic poultry flocks clear of the disease over 30 days, any outbreak in wild birds should have burned itself out by then. The restrictions may well be extended if the threat is still there, so don't bank on it ending after 30 days.
Fact is that a few people not cooperating can cause a massive problem for us all. I bet certain interests would love to take small scale keepers out of the market or force compulsory registration onto all.
Hopefully this will be just another panic but we need to take it very seriously.
Well said. It would be devastating enough for home keepers to lose their birds, but think about those whose livelihood is dependant on their flocks. Any stupidity which allows the disease to spread into the UK poultry flocks is likely to have consequences for us all :(
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We have a WIR covered by heavy duty see through tarps. We are in a very windy spot but have found that using wooden battens across the roof and sides keeps it in place. It is a messy eyesore but I don't care, the welfare of my hens comes first.
Where there are gaps towards the lower half of the run we have put up enviromesh - the stuff that keeps butterflies off your cabbages. It lets the light through but has such small holes that it prevents any contamination. Enviromesh is quite expensive (I have it for work and don't need it over the crops this time of year) but I did find in IKEA some lightweight small hole net curtains, they are massive and only £5. I have used them for polytunnel shading but they would also be good protection stretched over a run and wouldn't blow about as much as a tarp. They are called LILL, big enough to double up for extra protection whilst still letting in light. Not as good as a tarp though as not waterproof but probably ok for sides of runs where water doesn't drip through.
We have a Virkon-S footbath too as I walk through a wild bird feeding area to get to the run.
Unbelievable the number of people who think this is an inconvenience. I remember well the Foot and Mouth outbreak of 2001, living about 4 miles from its first ID site. DEFRA knows more than it lets on sometimes.... On the Tyne this week the numbers of migratory Black Backed Gulls was about 900% higher than in normal years and we have far more blackbirds and robins than I have ever seen. People need to take this seriously. A well known seller near me has also downplayed this as alarmist, maybe she is worried about her Christmas sales going down but its very irresponsible.
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The Department for Endangering Farming and Rural Affairs :D are not always wrong! This threat should be taken seriously. It is worth noting there are hefty fines for non-compliance. Would these folk poo poohing this really want to lose their birds and be responsible for a cull all around them even be responsible for a business going bust and all that that may entail for the family involved? Lets have a bird flu free Christmas and 2017. :)
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A well known seller near me has also downplayed this as alarmist, maybe she is worried about her Christmas sales going down but its very irresponsible.
Yes, I know who you mean, I'm disgusted at their attitude, they should be making every attempt to publicise the prevention order and helping their customers to comply. So far they haven't even updated their website to bring the situation to peoples attention. Nor does their twitter account mention anything about it, despite them having tweeted about their services since the notification. Makes me wonder if they are doing anything themselves to comply, or if they're carrying on as usual. Their dozens of WIRs aren't exactly wild bird proof.
Sadly people are listening to their friends on social media rather than going to the official website location and reading the guidance for themselves.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/avian-influenza-bird-flu
The ignorance of some people (re what John said above, eg "'we don't have wild birds, just the blackbirds who visit' ) is staggering and IMO calls into question their suitability for owning pets or livestock. If such ignorant statements are not challenged then they'll only increase.
Personally I feel that DEFRA haven't exactly helped. If it hadn't been for the newsletter from John & Cara and one neighbour mentioning it to me, I wouldn't have known. DEFRA should be taking out full page ads in all newspapers as well as making official statements on all radio stations and TV channels at peek times. They should also (sadly) be making allowances for people who don't know what, for example 'wild birds' means and actually explain such terms.
Thinking about the future, such situations can only increase in frequency. I feel the government should act now and insist that all kept birds should be registered. That way notices can be sent out directly to everyone affected, and it will also help with accountability, legal responsibility, and random checks to ensure people are complying with the regulations.
Ali.
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While I certainly do not condone a dismissive response to the bird flu risk, this is not really the place to point fingers. There are hefty fines that can be levied against those who refuse to comply, so any concerns are better directed to the authorities.
I for one would not like to see mandatory registration for all. There are lots of very level headed small scale poultry keepers out there who will apply a common sense attitude to this and find a way to comply. Anyone owning 50 birds or over should already be registered, which would include most breeders, but you can't legislate against stupidity.
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Would debris netting be sufficient? We have a big metal walk in run and I'm worried if we tie tarp to it, it may damage the structure with the winds we get
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Would debris netting be sufficient? We have a big metal walk in run and I'm worried if we tie tarp to it, it may damage the structure with the winds we get
Question you need to answer is - if a bird sat on the netting and pooped, would any of it get to your birds?
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Personally I feel that DEFRA haven't exactly helped. If it hadn't been for the newsletter from John & Cara and one neighbour mentioning it to me, I wouldn't have known. DEFRA should be taking out full page ads in all newspapers as well as making official statements on all radio stations and TV channels at peek times
To be fair it has been on the news and in most newspapers, as well as being on all the poultry forums, so I think most people would have heard about it.
Disinformation on Facebook, is another matter entirely >:(
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"Keepers of poultry and other captive birds are now required to keep their birds indoors, or take appropriate steps to keep them separate from wild birds"
I hope that people who keep other captive birds make the effort to protect their outdoor flights!
Budgie and foreign finch keepers are usually advised to cover all of the roof of outside flights to prevent contamination / infection from wild birds. Droppings from wild birds can cause all sorts of problems without the added risk bird flu.
I wonder how a local free-range egg farmer is going to manage as all of his flock are out in the field with only small triangular shaped chicken coups. Hopefully he has been able to put the lot in a very large barn or two or three. :(
It is a threat that really should be taken seriously. I'd hate to be responsible for allowing an outbreak and even more worried that it might jump to humans.
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We were away when all this broke out so were frantically emailing instructions to our neighbour to not let the chooks out and to disinfect wellies.
Thankfully the chicken palace seems to comply with the requirements of the order. Fully enclosed in small gauge mesh, and a full roof of corrugated plastic. All I've had to do is sort out a footbath.
Obviously the girls are less than impressed at having to stay in, though with the rain yesterday they were not too bothered. They don't do rain!
I've seen some very inventive solutions. Really good one was a big trampoline. Makes a lovely big covered space. The owner had just wrapped the sides up and linked it via a tunnel to their coop. Another lady was giving up her conservatory for temporary chicken accommodation! Where there's a will there's always a way.
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It's not just covering runs though - the rule also outlines that we have to keep our boots clean.
We normally use a manky pair of shoes to go out into to garden, but they get worn at the door until we kick them off onto the tray.
We're buying a pair of wellies and putting them in a bucket outside the door.
The problem is that wild birds can poo the disease anywhere, so we have to avoid traipsing it into our houses.
This is where everyone who insists on shoes off at the door become vindicated :D
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"Keepers of poultry and other captive birds are now required to keep their birds indoors, or take appropriate steps to keep them separate from wild birds"
I hope that people who keep other captive birds make the effort to protect their outdoor flights!
Budgie and foreign finch keepers are usually advised to cover all of the roof of outside flights to prevent contamination / infection from wild birds. Droppings from wild birds can cause all sorts of problems without the added risk bird flu......
....It is a threat that really should be taken seriously. I'd hate to be responsible for allowing an outbreak and even more worried that it might jump to humans.
Easy to forget that poultry aren't the only kept bird. Pigeons and doves jumps to mind as well.
On transmission to humans, that's pretty unlikely thank goodness. If we were living with infected birds wandering around the house and exposed to a large viral load then the mutation that hits humans is likely but not so much risk for the way we keep them. It's a scary thought though.
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Yes, I think it's unlikely to jump to humans, as there have been no human cases on the continent as far as I know.
However, it also talks about cats and dogs being carriers.
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We have just been to Pets at Home (dd lkes to look at the fish) , and although they have a section dedicated to poultry and one to wild birds, there are no signage or notices to tell about the quarantine nor any advice.
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Yes, I think it's unlikely to jump to humans, as there have been no human cases on the continent as far as I know.
However, it also talks about cats and dogs being carriers.
No chance of making cat owners keep their little darlings under control is there !
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Just for clarity, bird flu is spread bird to bird or by the droppings or other body fluids of an infected bird being transferred to an area used to keep captive birds.
Preventing contact between wild birds and captive birds and protecting the area the captive birds use from wild bird droppings are key.
There is also a risk of bringing contaminated material into a run via shoes or hands or paws for that matter, so keep your chicken shoes\boots\wellies clean, your other pets out of the run and wash your hands before and after visiting your birds. Most good poultry keepers are already on the guard against vermin, but they of course could also bring contamination into the run if they are about.
Just common sense rules on containment and hygiene ;)
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Would debris netting be sufficient? We have a big metal walk in run and I'm worried if we tie tarp to it, it may damage the structure with the winds we get
Question you need to answer is - if a bird sat on the netting and pooped, would any of it get to your birds?
I covered everything with a huge tarp in the end, I was lucky it fit perfectly. I'm just hoping there aren't any strong winds :unsure:
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Well done Mum2mj - thing is this is like insurance, you take it out hoping you don't use it. This is costing the industry millions, so DEFRA wouldn't have brought it in without genuine, serious concerns.
What worries me is that, if the worst happens, I keep thinking about how the country was hit with foot & mouth. That was with farmers being really careful and no wild cows and sheep flying around to spread the disease.
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Disinfecting foot-wear?
I wonder if I ought to set-up a tray just inside the safety-door of my little aviary's outside flight. My birds rarely fly down to the outside flight floor level at this time of year and they are only ever fed inside.
The problem I would have is keeping a tray of disinfectant undiluted (by rain water) as the safety door area is uncovered and leads to the covered flight.
Something else to keep me awake at night... but nowhere near the worries poultry keepers have to deal with. :(
Let's hope the problem doesn't last too long.
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I have placed a bucket of Strong disinfectant (vanodine V18) next to the run door so that I can dunk and soak my booted feet before I go into the run. I place an upside down tubitrug over it to keep rain out, plus falling leaves or other debris.
If boots aren't cleaned there is a risk of taking contamination, i.e. Wildbird poo, into the run.
And that's all it would take if that poo came from an infected bird.
To minimise risk, only I am going in, and only when necessary, i.e. Not just for a chat.
It's so sad, but suddenly I'm feeling very different towards the wild birds in my garden and the migrating geese etc. I really don't want to see them.
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That's a good idea Flowerpower. My alternative for Paul is take the shoes you wear inside your aviary there with you in a plastic bag and swap footwear at the door, doing the same when you come out.
As John says, its all insurance we hope we don't need. I have fingers and toes crossed it passes us by as well, which is why I am more than happy to stick to the advice given.
The effect on the farming industry, let alone our backyard birds and then the wild bird populations doesn't bear thinking about if a serious outbreak happens here :(
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Well done Mum2mj - thing is this is like insurance, you take it out hoping you don't use it. This is costing the industry millions, so DEFRA wouldn't have brought it in without genuine, serious concerns.
What worries me is that, if the worst happens, I keep thinking about how the country was hit with foot & mouth. That was with farmers being really careful and no wild cows and sheep flying around to spread the disease.
DEFRA did not cover themselves in glory during foot and mouth and were way too slow to contain it, hopefully they have learnt from this hence this current ruling.
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Well, my daughter's run is now covered, and the gap above the door where sparrows could get in to eat is closed off too. Old boots left in the adjoining shed. Children not allowed in the run, or the family cat either.. not popular but good sense
Everything now crossed
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There was an interview on the radio with the chief vet in Holland - she was talking around banning free range!
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I read about the huge cull of ducks they had to do following an outbreak on a group of farms. It is a drastic step though.
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Well we know it is possible to keep hens indoors with high welfare standards but I remember a cat we took on who had never been outdoors (city centre flat). The first time he went out into the garden he looked around in wonder all afternoon.
Not an easy one.
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.................My alternative for Paul is take the shoes you wear inside your aviary there with you in a plastic bag and swap footwear at the door, doing the same when you come out.
As John says, its all insurance we hope we don't need. I have fingers and toes crossed it passes us by as well, which is why I am more than happy to stick to the advice given.
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Thanks New Shoot - that's well worth considering. Presently the outside flight is out of bounds to the budgies to give me time to decide on the safest most manageable option. I could not risk being the reason for other peoples birds / chickens / pets / being culled if my few caught avian flu.
Incidentally: Today I travelled north by bus towards Guildford and was amazed to spot what looked like an uncovered enclosure with geese wandering around. :ohmy: Hopefully I was mistaken. Surely the message reached everyone?
Hopefully my eyes deceived me.
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Incidentally: Today I travelled north by bus towards Guildford and was amazed to spot what looked like an uncovered enclosure with geese wandering around. :ohmy: Hopefully I was mistaken. Surely the message reached everyone?
Hopefully my eyes deceived me.
Possibly they're on their last day or two before being killed. Even if some people ignore the restrictions, the more who follow them the safer we all are.
The big problem with flu (avian & human) is the blasted thing mutates so much. I think it's called recombinant. The result is that vaccination programs aren't effective. Neither is there an effective cure if the birds get it so prevention of infection has to be the best move.
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Saw a worrying post on Facebook yesterday. A woman saying she had phoned the DEFRA help line and been told that there was no control order in place, it's just 'advice'. No fines etc.
Lot of confusion out there.
I'm quite clear though. Whilst there is even a sniff of a risk, my girls are under cover, and my boots are soooooo disinfected they might well dissolve before this is over.
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I think people might just be hearing what they want tbh.
In the interests of research I've just rung the DEFRA helpline. What the lady told me was that she couldn't tell me for certain my birds were safe from bird flu, she could only pass on the advice given by the chief vet.
She did, however, direct me to the government website and the info they have published there on keeping captive birds away from wild ones, securing runs, mesh size and disinfectants.
Not really the same thing at all ::) You stick with your way Flowerpower ;)
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Chief Vet said on the News that geese are not subject to their advice as it is not practical or in the interests of their welfare to be so confined. So the person was doing nothing wrong in not covering his/her geese.
As has been said there is a lot of misunderstanding about the advice etc. I think that as long as you are taking all the precautions you can, then that is all you can do.
We have ours under tight control, or so we thought. Happened to look out of the window overlooking the run and a pesky sparrow was enjoying themselves in the run. How did it get in? Our birds had dug a tunnel on the perimeter and made a small hole just big enough for sparrows to enter. Now we have bricks round the edge to stop the tunnelling activities.
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Saw a worrying post on Facebook yesterday. A woman saying she had phoned the DEFRA help line and been told that there was no control order in place, it's just 'advice'. No fines etc.
I'm wondering if DEFRA have some temps in who aren't fully briefed. When we contacted them they were very clear BUT we'd explained we wanted our facts straight before posting, sending out a newsletter to thousands of poultry keepers etc. so perhaps we got a better informed source.
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Lack of clarity can lead to confusion :unsure: If nothing else I can stop having flash-backs trying to work out whether my eyes had deceived me or not the other day....as the bus sped along....and I don't have to worry about should I have said something to someone about "Geese
on in the Run".
Fingers crossed that it passes by and vanishes without major incident.
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Right now I'm more pleased with my thicket from Smiths sectional then ever. All those thoughts I'd over done it and should get something much smaller have evaporated. The girls are taking their confinement quite quietly at the moment but I'm staying out of the garden so as not to rub it in an antagonise them.
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Just in case you don't know, you can register with DEFRA to receive alerts re bird flu etc, without having to register your flock, if you have a small flock of less than 50.
Very easy to do on line, no horrible confusing form, and it works a treat. I got the latest facts and info re the Lincolnshire outbreak with information on the various zones and what they mean in practice. Came through via email yesterday. Hoping it will never be relevant to me, but good to have the facts.
Would recommend.
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As has been said there is a lot of misunderstanding about the advice etc.
I'm sorry but I disagree. The "Biosecurity and preventing disease in captive birds within a Prevention Zone" document available at https://www.gov.uk/guidance/avian-influenza-bird-flu is very clear and well written. There is even a paragraph on Geese:
Geese
Where small numbers of geese are kept, it may be possible to house them. However, if
that is not possible, temporary netted structures should be used where practical which can
cover large areas. Feeding and watering under cover and using wild bird deterrents will
reduce contact with wild birds.
Which makes me wonder if the poster above who was "amazed to spot what looked like an uncovered enclosure with geese wandering around" has actually read the document?
Chief Vet said on the News that geese are not subject to their advice as it is not practical or in the interests of their welfare to be so confined.
The Chief Vet is wrong, Geese are subject to the advice, I've just quoted the relevant paragraph. Maybe even the 'chief vet' hasn't bothered reading it. Maybe he also gets his education from Farcebook?
Unbelievable.
I feel very sorry for commercial free range egg producers. Because the birds are free range they don't have a lot of inside space for them, so arguably, the farmers that have just shut the doors and are not letting them outside are forcing conditions on the birds they are not used to. Even just my two who now have 'only' a 40 Sq meter temporary run are getting cabin fever because they're not used to having their freedom restricted, so goodness knows how the birds forced to remain inside are coping. On top of that, it's remarkable how quickly just two birds can turn a 30Sq m part of the garden into a desert, they've literally stripped it and dug it all over and we've still go another 3 weeks to go. Bulbs, plants and grass, the whole of that area will have to be leveled out and resown in the spring.
If this prevention zone becomes the new normal then I shall have to seriously consider no longer keeping chickens :(
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There was an interview on the radio with the chief vet in Holland - she was talking around banning free range!
And there, I believe, lies the rub....so much control of backyard flocks that no one can afford to keep them any longer and have to rely solely on commercially grown foods. The ultimate goal of all these government tactics.
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Please can we stick the main topic of the thread - information about the outbreak.
Political comments aren't permitted as they quickly turn into unfriendly threads. :)
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There was an interview on the radio with the chief vet in Holland - she was talking around banning free range!
And there, I believe, lies the rub....so much control of backyard flocks that no one can afford to keep them any longer and have to rely solely on commercially grown foods. The ultimate goal of all these government tactics.
I think you're right - but we're a little off topic now.
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The Chief Vet is wrong, Geese are subject to the advice, I've just quoted the relevant paragraph. Maybe even the 'chief vet' hasn't bothered reading it. Maybe he also gets his education from Farcebook?
Unbelievable.
There is advice for geese, but it does make allowances for them that are not in place for other poultry and you don't know the circumstances of the geese spotted by Paul. They may have been on their last day or two before slaughter as suggested. The owner may well have been following the advice as far as they could and be feeding and watering the birds under cover, but enclosing the whole area may not have been practical, as you have found yourself.
Although a covering for the run would be ideal, and is advised, where I live it's open countryside high up so very windy, and a tarp is not practical. I have no garage or shed or other place to put them and it's impossible to have them in the house with me, so the mesh run will have to suffice.
As Ghost so sensibly said :
I think that as long as you are taking all the precautions you can, then that is all you can do.
This forum is a friendly place with lots of advice, chat and support. I think that's even more important to remember in the face of this current threat to all our birds.
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Hello readers,
I only have two hens now, had one hen attacked by a fox about four weeks ago and had to have it put down.
Anyway back to the flu. Mine have a coop with a run, both of which are inside a large aviary frame covered with chicken wire and last year I had covered the top of the cage with tarpaulin to keep the hens dry as they sleep on top of the coop run frame. Even when down to -5C.
The only thing is the chicken wire can allow small birds in.
Also the hens pace up and down the front when they see me. But, they don't try to come out now so they have settled down to the new environment.
I do give them the occasional brassica stalk to chew the leaves which they love. Alternative to not eating the grass.
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If the chicken wire can allow small birds, then you need to cover all the wire. Clear plastic is best, polytunnel sheeting either online or garden centre, or buy a roll of white bin liners and cut in half and wire onto the mesh.
Mine are in the polytunnel, minus the house as it won't go through the door, because my wire lets in wrens, sparrows etc.
If a garden centre is getting rid of plastic wrapping that will do, or debris netting.
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A wild duck has been found dead in Llanelli. It has been confirmed it was the H5N8 strain. It's obvious that no one in the UK or Ireland can afford to be complacent. Lincolnshire to S Wales in a week.
Also - in case anyone has missed it, indoor gatherings of birds at events like fairs, auctions and bird shows are now banned until further notice.
This quote from Chief Veterinary Officer Christianne Glossop
"Bio security should never be compromised. - Even when birds are housed, there remains a risk of infection and keepers of poultry and other captive birds should ensure that every effort is made to prevent contact with wild birds.
The movement of poultry should be minimized, and clothing and equipment should always be disinfected."
Latest government information: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/avian-influenza-bird-flu
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Very worrying development as that's only an hour from here. In fact I travelled back from that way yesterday.
Not sure if widgeon are migratory, but if they are it might be an isolated case of an aready infected bird dying on arrival. Fingers crossed.
Glad to say my girls are healthy and chirpy despite the lockdown.
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According to the RSPB they do migrate and unfortunately, from areas already hit by bird flu :(
https://www.rspb.org.uk/birds-and-wildlife/bird-and-wildlife-guides/bird-a-z/w/wigeon/
Your ladies are well protected Flowerpower, so fingers crossed all will be well :)
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This along with the RVHD2 in rabbits I'm a worried owner of little critters!
H :blush:
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Please can people remember to have grit available for their birds and oyster shell as well. Mine have always free ranged, but their new housing area has run out of natural grit. You do not want crop problems.
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Please can people remember to have grit available for their birds and oyster shell as well. Mine have always free ranged, but their new housing area has run out of natural grit. You do not want crop problems.
A good reminder... I once bred cockatiels and they loved gnawing on the concrete block wall at the base of their outside flight!
Budgie keepers are accustomed to providing oyster shell, grit and cuttlefish bone.... small foreign finches appreciate crushed egg shell. I wonder if chickens might or would it encourage egg eating? :unsure:
(Forgot to say = egg shell is always baked in the oven first)
Hoping everyone's birds are doing well.
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A few days old as I haven't been reading the news websites, but more bird flu cases. I can see the end date for the restrictions being extended :(
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-38421337
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I can see it going the full 12 weeks, but farmers can't afford to lose the free range status.
Put a nest site in today as they are over the moult and reding up. Hopefully they haven't kicked it over the place.
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Another side to this is that free range egg farmers cannot sell their eggs due to the size as the birds are eating more. BIL is getting very large eggs from the butcher at a good price
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A new outbreak found, this time in a backyard flock in Wales. So sad, was hoping the prevention rule would be raised - suppose no chance now
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jan/03/avian-flu-found-in-backyard-flock-in-welsh-village-pontyberem
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This has really scared me. Too close for comfort.
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Another outbreak - not good news at all.
We do not seem to have heard anymore about outbreaks on the continent. I wonder if it is lessened over there and how long an outbreak lasts on average.
I guess it's hard to predict even based on previous years.
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Just rung DEFRA to ask when we can let our six hens out. Hopefully it will be this Friday. What I can't get my head around is that we have three geese that we don't shut up at night so they are classed as wild. Geese that are shut up at night are not classed as wild and should have been confined like the hens. Can anyone unravel this so I can understand the reasoning?
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Maybe it's to do with their general welfare? Not sure.
Encouraging to hear the order might still be lifted on Friday. Quite surprised. Wonder if that might not apply to Wales though. Time will tell.
With an outbreak so near to me I'm tempted to keep mine under cover anyway.
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Posted on farminguk.com that the housing order is to be extended to end Feb. Nothing on DEFRA site yet though.
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Posted on farminguk.com that the housing order is to be extended to end Feb. Nothing on DEFRA site yet though.
DEFRA seem to be leaving people guessing I guess.... not that helpful.
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Think farminguk is a reliable source, but it's not official till DEFRA say so. In any case, I've issued my own order! Mine are staying in. Too close to latest outbreak to even dream of letting them out. :(
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sadly its been extended and its official.................my hens and geese are going to go stir crazy
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/avian-flu-prevention-zone-extended
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We were lucky and found out early on this morning, Andrea Leadsom was not as good as keeping it a secret as Defra has been! We spent the day clearing the polytunnel so they could have some fresh ground to move onto and will add perch and housing tomorrow. Most people round our way haven't housed them at all as they are on allotments and don't have space. I wonder if many of them would even spot the symptoms as they are a raggedy bunch at the best of times. (both hens and allotment keepers)
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I haven't done anything about covering the mesh sides of our run. It's fully covered across the top with a solid plastic roof so nothing can poop on them from above. The sides are inch by half inch weldmesh.
Poop would have to be blown in sideways and not catch on the mesh to get into the run. So I thought that was adequate. But I'm seeing pics of totally wrapped up runs.
Do I need to do more?
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Extended until 28th Feb
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I haven't done anything about covering the mesh sides of our run. It's fully covered across the top with a solid plastic roof so nothing can poop on them from above. The sides are inch by half inch weldmesh.
Poop would have to be blown in sideways and not catch on the mesh to get into the run. So I thought that was adequate. But I'm seeing pics of totally wrapped up runs.
Do I need to do more?
I'm afraid to be safe you need to do more. Don't forget you could pick up some infected poop on your shoes and traipse it into the bird's enclosure. To be really safe it's going to be full bio-security.
Last I heard about Europe was 150,000 birds have been culled. Daft thing is a friend of ours in France had heard nothing - but she's not on the net.
I reckon this will go on until April.
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Oh I am doing the biosecurity as well. Vanodine 18 footbath, disposable gloves, aprons etc and only me going in. I'm one stage away from full hazchem suit! Lol!
Just that I've been seeing photos of runs that are completely fully 'wrapped', i.e. Not just a roof. So I was starting to wonder about the unprotected mesh sides on ours.
Just read the order again though, and think we do comply. Totally separated from wild birds and can't be pooped on from above.
Im possibly getting a bit paranoid worrying about poop flying in from the sides, but don't want to be missing a trick.
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I have a similar set-up to you in my big walk-in run Flowerpower. The roof is plastic and overhangs slightly, the sides are fine mesh. It is also in a corner, so a wall and fence border 2 sides and planting the 3rd. I haven't covered the open side yet as it would quite a trick shot for a bird to get speed up to fire poop into the run, then scoot up over the top of it without crashing. The eglu run is low and there is a cover over the whole roof that extends down the sides a little way.
I couldn't call it 100% bio secure, but I don't have inside space I can move them to. They are outside, wild birds use the garden and although they can't have direct contact with my flock, there is a chance something could happen. In both cases, I think the lack of ventilation and daylight if I completely wrapped up the runs would pose more of a threat to the health of my birds, but that's just my personal opinion.
What about wrapping just the top sections of your mesh sides, if your run is more exposed. That would be some added protection from any poop coming from birds flying over.
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My set up is the same as Flowerpower's. We covered our walk in eglu run with chicken wire on the sides that are not covered with solid covers (mainly against wind). The sparrows that used to get in through the mesh run have deserted the area - they have learned very quickly that their food source has run dry and they feed elsewhere in the garden. I feel desperately sorry for my young hen who is on her own following the death of her sister and has yet been integrated with the two older birds. They are in runs next to each other, but she is clearly lonely. Had hoped to get them all out together in the garden this weekend to fight it out and then bed together! Another two months, poor girl! We are now thinking that we will wait till we have got another 3 POLs in March (hopefully) and then mix them in all at once. Four against two may be better, but then we normally quarantine new birds for a month anyway! Gosh, it's a pain, but at least the girls are ok, so far....
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28th Feb is 12 weeks, after that commercial farmers will be wanting compensation as free range status no longer exists.
All birds have to be kept as a minimum 9 per square meter and you also need to protect them from vermin.
There has been a case on a household rather than commercial or wild birds.
Now would be a good time to worm them, but remember grit and oyster shell.
All I need now is a nest box where the contents are not kicked out!!
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We'll be lucky if this is over by April - they said on the news that the French are culling a million ducks!
http://news.sky.com/story/france-orders-cull-of-ducks-after-severe-bird-flu-outbreak-10718038
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I cant believe how slap dash this quarantine has been.
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I cant believe how slap dash this quarantine has been.
I think the DEFRA advice has been pretty good tbh, although I also think a lot of people have ignored it or decided it doesn't apply to them ::)
Whether the same is true on the continent is unclear. On reading up on the duck cull in France (its the main foie gras producing area, so there are a lot of ducks and geese there), the farms that have fully indoor farming systems are exempt from the cull. It sounds like there were a lot of outdoor ducks and perhaps it was impossible to get them all inside :unsure:
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When we spoke to a friend in the Limousin over Christmas she hadn't heard about it and she keeps about 20 birds. In fairness, she doesn't use the net and watches very little telly. If you see someone with their birds out, you could ask them if they've heard about the disease outbreak, hopefully without them bristling.
What does worry me is the dippy's who are sure it doesn't mean them. Maybe I'm paranoid but I reckon the big agri-business poultry suppliers would love to get home and small scale keeping banned. We saw the same with the potato mob blaming home growers for blight. Yeah.. you've got 200 acres and I've got 20 square yards so it's my fault?????
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I agree that there probably are parties out there who would get the small poultry operations banned if they could. Extending that to backyard keepers would be stretch but not impossible. I can see mandatory registration or some sort of licensing on the way ::)
Trouble is, if there is a major outbreak here and farmers end up culling hundreds of thousands of birds, Mr or Mrs Dippy down the road who knowingly flouted the restrictions, will get the blame .... and by extension, all backyard keepers, even if they have been careful and done everything they could. No doubt the dippys will still be sure it was nothing to do with them :mad:
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This is my point, its only if you go to the DEFRA site that you get the required info, your average keeper of a few girls have no idea unless it is mentioned on the news etc, did the BBC give any coverage about the extension yesterday on the evening news, did they (expletive deleted). This has the potential to wipe out entire flocks of birds world wide, I don't think its been publicised enough. I found out about one animal park in the area that only shut there birds in for 2 days, they have been out roaming ever since.
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This is my point, its only if you go to the DEFRA site that you get the required info, your average keeper of a few girls have no idea unless it is mentioned on the news etc, did the BBC give any coverage about the extension yesterday on the evening news, did they (expletive deleted). This has the potential to wipe out entire flocks of birds world wide, I don't think its been publicised enough. I found out about one animal park in the area that only shut there birds in for 2 days, they have been out roaming ever since.
I was at work last night, so didn't see the evening news, but I know stories get bumped, or dropped to other bulletins if they have other stories to report, so I don't rely on that as my main source of information. As has been mentioned on another thread, its very easy to sign up for DEFRA alerts. I've been reading all available info on the news sites and the DEFRA one since this all started, plus keeping up on here. I think a lot of poultry keepers have been doing the same. There's also the DEFRA helpline.
Regarding the animal park in your area, I would be inclined to ring them and politely ask what steps they are taking as you had heard their birds were still out. Depending on the answer I got, I would then perhaps give DEFRA a call, if I thought they were being cavalier about the situation.
If you see someone with their birds out, you could ask them if they've heard about the disease outbreak, hopefully without them bristling.
I think this was John's gentle prod to us poultry keepers to think about being a bit more pro-active. I think its sound advice. We have a lot to lose and our farmers even more.
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Some folks are being too cavalier about things if they bother at all. A local RHS garden did not have their chooks confined and wild birds were going into the coop. I did take this up with them and they said they were now closing them up for the winter and sending them elsewhere. This does not alter the fact that they had been ignoring DEFRA up to that point. Folks by me have covered in their birds and done a good job but are mot practising any basic prevention such as footbaths.
We all know that unlike the folk on here who have been very responsible judging by the posts to some it is always someone elses problem. DEFRA should be taking steps to check around and prosecute ensuring good press to get the message home. It will end up being a repeat of foot and mouth - too little too late - if we are unlucky. :(
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Good for you on raising the matter with them Sassy, but you are right. That excuse doesn't hold water at all. Its not what you would expect from an organisation like them :(
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This is my point, its only if you go to the DEFRA site that you get the required info, your average keeper of a few girls have no idea unless it is mentioned on the news etc, did the BBC give any coverage about the extension yesterday on the evening news, did they (expletive deleted). This has the potential to wipe out entire flocks of birds world wide, I don't think its been publicised enough. I found out about one animal park in the area that only shut there birds in for 2 days, they have been out roaming ever since.
There was a fairly long item on the BBC Wales news. Sky news did a piece on the French culling but I'm afraid I don't watch the BBC main news often. Not heard anything on BBC radio 4 news, which is usually on in the background. Farming Today hasn't said much but they may assume the Farmers are informed anyway.
We've done newsletter specials on it but they only reach those who have signed up for them.
When you consider the potential economic damage - poultry is big business - you'd have expected a bit more. Then again, culling a few hens is not as TV dramatic as pyres of cattle in the fields as we had with foot and mouth.
At worst, if most domestic poultry keeps do what they can it helps a lot. Better if everyone did, of course.
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How many chicken owners will call the vet out if a chicken dies. The chicken vets in Lincolnshire are probably run off their feet with commercial birds, but how many will call if it is only 1 or 2 birds.
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Another case confirmed.
Some practical advice has been issued too. Not sure if this link will work but worth a try.
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/581952/ai-birdflu-factsheet-170106.pdf
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Link works :)
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The latest case is near Settle in North Yorkhire.
http://www.cumbriacrack.com/2017/01/06/avian-flu-confirmed-near-settle-north-yorkshire/
Some good news amongst the bad. The bird that was found at the wetland centre in Llanelli seems to have been an isolated case.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-west-wales-38482801
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I cant believe how slap dash this quarantine has been.
The only way you can quarantine a wild duck is with 36 grams of no 5 steel shot ! ;)
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*** I never mentioned wild ducks. >:(
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*** I never mentioned wild ducks. >:(
My point being 100% tight quarantine is of little worth when you cannot control what is flying around . :nowink:
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:wacko: :wub:
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Can I just add a gentle reminder that this is a family friendly forum and swearing isn't allowed, even if disguised.
We are a very friendly forum all round and and prefer our members to address each other in a positive and friendly manner.
Avian flu is a serious and worrying matter for a lot of us and this thread is a constructive way for us to share information, advice and generally be around to chat if people want to talk to someone.
A link to the site polices in case anyone is unclear about how 'tis done round here ;)
http://chat.allotment-garden.org/index.php?topic=19481.0
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Flowerpot136 - thanks for the link - useful for reference.
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My point being 100% tight quarantine is of little worth when you cannot control what is flying around . :nowink:
Of course you can't control wild birds but you can protect your flock from interacting with them and being exposed to their droppings. There was a commercial poultry farmer on TV the other day with a number of sheds. His approach was to ban visitors unless absolutely necessary - and then they had to to boot wash, tyre wash for delivery wagons. Even when he walked out of one shed and 5 yards to the next, boots scrubbed in biocide.
Few people will go to those lengths but every little does help
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My point being 100% tight quarantine is of little worth when you cannot control what is flying around . :nowink:
Of course you can't control wild birds but you can protect your flock from interacting with them and being exposed to their droppings. There was a commercial poultry farmer on TV the other day with a number of sheds. His approach was to ban visitors unless absolutely necessary - and then they had to to boot wash, tyre wash for delivery wagons. Even when he walked out of one shed and 5 yards to the next, boots scrubbed in biocide.
Few people will go to those lengths but every little does help
Agreed you should protect your stock to the best of your ability , but the chances of stopping worms , slugs or insects from eating infected droppings outside the shed or protective cover and then visiting your stock are remote .
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Bad news: Abbotsbury Swannery hit by avian flu - 9 birds found dead.
Link to Abbotsbury (http://abbotsbury-tourism.co.uk/swannery/)
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Yes, I found it here
http://www.dorsetecho.co.uk/news/15009595.Nine_cases_of_bird_flu_confirmed_in_swans_at_popular_tourist_attraction/
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Yes, I found it here
http://www.dorsetecho.co.uk/news/15009595.Nine_cases_of_bird_flu_confirmed_in_swans_at_popular_tourist_attraction/
Shame about the ex batts not being rehomed too!
A lot of hard work goes into giving those hard working hens a bit of quality retirement life . :(
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It does bring it home how important it is to guard your own birds as well as you can
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Another case here at the RSPB Conway reserve :(
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-north-west-wales-38561995
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This is a roundup that might be helpful as well. The latest case isn't included.
Ducks and other wetland birds seem to taking the brunt of it, so if you have any of these flying around over your run, it is even more vital you do everything you can to protect your birds against contact with them or their droppings.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-dorset-38554834
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There is a story in one of the local paper about a swan crash landing in a school playground and being collected and released by the RSPCA at a nearby pond !
I know swans occasionally mistake wet tarmac for water and land on roads but it is possible that bird flu may have played a part .
No mention was made of any tests before release .
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I have just reported a farm park to Defra, there flock is out and roaming free :mad:
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What sort of response did you get?
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Don't know only did it today, sent email
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I'm not sure you will get more than a 'thank you for your email' response from DEFRA.
Did you contact the farm park at all to ask them why the birds were out? Are they hens or ducks and geese ?
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I just want something done, I'm not bothered if I don't get a response. It gets complicated because we know the people who own it, they are entirely money orientated. They have hens, ducks, peacocks, turkeys, guinea fowl plus other birds, ie parrots owl's etc.
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Some practical advice has been issued too. Not sure if this link will work but worth a try.
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/581952/ai-birdflu-factsheet-170106.pdf
Further to the above. I'm aware that copies are being mailed to those with registered flocks but it's seems a bit hit and miss and obviously will still be missing all the little flock people, especially those not regularly on line.
I'm going to print a few copies and get them up in local shops and village noticeboards etc. Every little helps.
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Got a response today
Good Afternoon,
Thank you for email including location details of poultry keepers not complying with the Avian Influenza Prevention zone.
The information has been recorded. We are not an enforcement agency but we will investigate and take appropriate action where necessary.
Kind Regards,
Alice
APHA Customer Advice Team
Animal and Plant Health Agency (APHA)
Telephone: 03000 200 301 Fax:01392 266374
Website: www.gov.uk/apha | Twitter: @APHAgovuk | Facebook: aphagov
Address: Isca Building, Manley House, Kestrel Way, Exeter, Devon EX2 7LQ
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Another outbreak reported today - next to the first outbreak site in Louth, Lincolnshire. I thought we were doing well with no outbreaks for nearly a week - but alas its still around
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-38648058
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This might be a little random and slightly off topic but are there any "Proventions Zones" across Europe? i.e. Chickens being confined to inside and not free ranging?
Thanks
Hannah
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There are EU wide rules re Avian Flu, we have the same rules.
https://ec.europa.eu/food/animals/animal-diseases/control-measures/avian-influenza_en
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I'm in a dilemma. Any advice would be appreciated.
We are keeping our birds in and undercover, which is no hardship ,as that's how they are normally in a fox-proof run.
However, I have a colleague at work, whose husband is a farmer and an uncle-in-law, who has a flock of hens, neither of whom are complying with the DEFRA stuff. They just say, "well, if they get birdflu, they'll die, so what's the problem?!" My OH and I have tried to explain about bio-security, EU wide quarantine, and the need not to spread the disease locally, but these folk seem oblivious and just shrug their shoulders. I don't want to cause a row at work, as it's very stressful just now and we may all lose our jobs, or to upset my OH's uncle.
Any tips on how to proceed?.....
Ta. C
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Maybe do what Madcat did, (read older posts in this thread) as that seems to have had a suitable response. Hppe that helps
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I don't know if anything concrete will happen if you report them. I suspect not unless there is an outbreak nearby and DEFRA have a ready made list of non-compliers to visit, but the information may help with the containment of the disease. I think I would make the call or drop them an email.
Any hens not being kept in are at the same risk as wild birds, so view them that way. Keep your hens safe and away from them, including keeping the owners of them well away from your flock. Keep your run footwear at home and don't use it anywhere else.
Its very disheartening when you have made efforts to explain, but been ignored. Its also not fair on all poultry and other captive bird keepers in the area. If they really are that uncaring that their attitude is 'well if the hens die, they die' I'm not sure what else you can do :(
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:mad:
We will never stop the spread of anything if people don't follow quarantine rules, why are DEFRA not policing the situation????? And issuing big fines or removing licences??? As I said before this whole situation is a big joke.
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OK I give up, a local farmer is selling off his 1 year old birds this weekend, what a great way to bring the virus to his farm and spread it to the rest of the county and beyond. I'm sure he will be following DEFRAS advice but even the Hen welfare trust has suspended there operations until the quarantine is over.
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might be worthwhile checking with the police on 101, they might check that biosecurity is being adhered to
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Thanks all. I may give DEFRA a call or the 101 idea. Even if it just means a quiet word to the farmer, it might be enough.
It's so disheartening that their attitude is dismissive of regs,when they are more than happy to take subsidy for a failing business (which we can't do!) and then buy new range rovers....(Sorry, rant over!).
And there's me, thinking that folks want to preserve our rural way of life....
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I don't think that selling hens are restricted, the farmer has to ensure biosecurity is done properly. The farmer would not take back a chicken into a flock, but cull it. If within a prevention zone then a vet has to give permission for movement of poultry and livestock.
There is a ban for exporting poultry, dead or alive, and meat is being frozen.
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Another case
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/avian-flu-confirmed-at-a-farm-in-preston-lancashire
:(
Hannah
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Another case
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/avian-flu-confirmed-at-a-farm-in-preston-lancashire
:(
Hannah
Thanks for the update Hanna,
I think weve all come to the realisation that the restrictions wont be lifted at the end of Feb :(
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I can see the restrictions going on into March, while the spring migrations happen. It would seem sensible.
Mine have settled into the realisation that 'out' isn't an option at the moment. I'm keeping them supplied with greens and lettuce and they are happy enough. Luckily chickens are very good at just getting on with it.
Poor old free-range farmers though :(
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Ialso fear and extension to the prevention measure, but this is going to cause so many problems to the food industry as every piece of packaging is effectly going to be wrong where is states free range eggs being used.
Discussions are currently underway as to how this can be managed, but at the moment there are no conclusions.
Hannah :wacko:
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Another case in turkeys, Boston, Lincolnshire.
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Centered on Frithville, just north of Boston...bit close for comfort
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www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/584885/ai-findings-1617.csv/preview
This links says what county/type of bird and how many have been found dead and reported in the wild bird population.
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This is getting alot worse very fast.....
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At least I think I have prevailed with my colleague who says she'll keep her birds in from now on! Some sort of result.....
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If you see anyone not compling then you should contact Trading Standards (as it says on the gov site)
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I did that today. :unsure:
Emailed local council re a flock of birds I walked past, obviously well cared for, but no attempt to cover them and even the feeders were out.
It's been passed to animal health people, so will see how it goes. Feel the worst snitch ever. :(
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I did that today. :unsure:
Emailed local council re a flock of birds I walked past, obviously well cared for, but no attempt to cover them and even the feeders were out.
It's been passed to animal health people, so will see how it goes. Feel the worst snitch ever. :(
I think you did the right thing as your actions will help protect other bird keepers.
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I think you did the right thing as your actions will help protect other bird keepers.
I agree.
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Another pheasant farm in Lancashire, which is linked with the last one.
It shows how important is biosecurity is. Will the owners be fined or compensated for losing their birds!!!
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Well if they didn't follow procedure I say fine them.
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Another Buzzard this time North Yorkshire and a 3rd linked pheasant farm in Lancashire
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So are these 3 pheasant farms following procedure???
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So are these 3 pheasant farms following procedure???
There is no way to know for sure. The information posted on the government website suggests there have been issues identified - whether these are down to bad luck and the virus getting past all measures put in place, or a lack of bio-security is not clear.
The 2nd farm was found as part of the investigation of the 1st one. Its not on the official website yet, but I think its a safe bet that the 3rd has also been identified as Veterinary Officers have gone checking and testing at any other linked farms.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/avian-flu-confirmed-at-a-farm-in-wyre-lancashire
Good to know they are being pro-active :)
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They are possibly owned by the same company. The odds on the same diseased bird gaining access to different sheds at 3 locations without having a crowbar under it's dorsal wing, I think are quite remote.
How many commercial places do not follow basic DEFRA rules? Easy to check by how much they should have used against invoices, but even here not many keep out signs are by entrances.
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I was thinking it was more like an employee or manager travelling between sites and carrying the virus with them. Or it could easily be carried by young birds being distributed out for growing on.
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I was thinking it was more like an employee or manager travelling between sites and carrying the virus with them. Or it could easily be carried by young birds being distributed out for growing on.
Or a delivery man or a rep
The vast majority of commercial enterprises are on full bio-security now if they weren't before. Sadly some domestic and small-scale keepers still aren't taking it seriously enough.
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I was thinking it was more like an employee or manager travelling between sites and carrying the virus with them. Or it could easily be carried by young birds being distributed out for growing on.
A bit early for young birds at the moment, the shooting season has just ended today.
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I was thinking it was more like an employee or manager travelling between sites and carrying the virus with them. Or it could easily be carried by young birds being distributed out for growing on.
A bit early for young birds at the moment, the shooting season has just ended today.
Its a continuous process at the big rearing units. The new season starts as the old one finishes, gearing up for egg production. It can be a pretty industrial process not unlike intensively raised chickens or battery farmed eggs.
Whether bird flu has been carried by birds or people, there is a link between these farms that the government vets have traced :)
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I was thinking it was more like an employee or manager travelling between sites and carrying the virus with them. Or it could easily be carried by young birds being distributed out for growing on.
A bit early for young birds at the moment, the shooting season has just ended today.
Its a continuous process at the big rearing units. The new season starts as the old one finishes, gearing up for egg production. It can be a pretty industrial process not unlike intensively raised chickens or battery farmed eggs.
Whether bird flu has been carried by birds or people, there is a link between these farms that the government vets have traced :)
Most game farms will not have chicks for sale before April as nobody would want the chicks too early !
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Most game farms will not have chicks for sale before April as nobody would want the chicks too early !
I don't think I said otherwise :unsure: I've been reading up a bit on game farming today as I wondered why farms would have large numbers of pheasants at this time of year.
The breeding stock starts getting put in place early on. Its highly possible young birds were getting moved around into breeding and laying units for the last couple of months and that is how these farms are linked. Or it could be a rep or delivery man as also suggested.
I don't know how these farms have cross infected each other, but it has happened and as I said it seems likely the vets followed the trail of either people or birds moving from one to the other. Its a lesson to be learned about the importance of bio-security.
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Most game farms will not have chicks for sale before April as nobody would want the chicks too early !
I don't think I said otherwise :unsure: I've been reading up a bit on game farming today as I wondered why farms would have large numbers of pheasants at this time of year.
The breeding stock starts getting put in place early on. Its highly possible young birds were getting moved around into breeding and laying units for the last couple of months and that is how these farms are linked. Or it could be a rep or delivery man as also suggested.
I don't know how these farms have cross infected each other, but it has happened and as I said it seems likely the vets followed the trail of either people or birds moving from one to the other. Its a lesson to be learned about the importance of bio-security.
Was does happen a lot in heathier conditions is a shoot will catch up pheasants and open pen them , collect the eggs which are sanitised and sent to the game farm and receive a proportion back as day olds or bigger.
The netting over the laying pens will be anti predator at best and not up to avian flu proof.
Normally hens are caught up before the end of the season and the last shoots are cocks only.
I should think a few gamekeepers and shoot managers will be more than a little concerned about 2017.
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The first case in Northern Ireland has been reported
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-38841216
Interestingly after 8doubles mentioned catching up, I read some advice on the National Game Keepers site that the catching up of pheasants is still permitted if the birds are to remain at the site of capture, but obviously care is needed given the current situation. Its not going to be an easy breeding season for these type of set-ups. This is the advice given.
http://www.nationalgamekeepers.org.uk/media/uploads/cat-252/Bird%20Flu%20and%20Gamebirds%20Advice%20Final%20Jan%2013%202017.pdf
The first pheasant farm in the 3 linked cases in Lancashire had a farmed flock of 10,000 on site over winter, ready for the coming breeding season, so was a different type of operation than the traditional method this link talks about. Their restrictions would have been more like a normal poultry farm.
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I went to a local farm shop today to buy some chicken meat, as I arrived there were 3 bantams trotting around!!! I mentioned whilst in the shop how surprised I was to see them free ranging, the chap looked horror struck & said he never thought to keep them in, even though all his meat, laying, & ducks were enclosed. I jokingly said it was a good job I wasn't from DEFRA, he said they come & test every year normally but haven't been as yet
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Der!!
So easy to "forget" tha stragglers, I suppose :wacko:
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Not sure how accurate or reliable this map is but thought the link might be of interest:
http://www.fwi.co.uk/poultry/map-avian-influenza-incidence-across-the-UK-2016-17.htm
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Interesting as no reports in the south east.
Probably more sitings when the fields dry out a bit so more walkers
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Interesting update:
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/update-on-biosecurity-measures-to-protect-against-avian-flu
Doesn't necessarily affect back yard chickens, mainly based on commerical.
It's going to get very complicated! I can imagine what all out customer will be wanting and the level of detail. Goign to be a bit of a nightmare.... (FYI I work in food manufacturing... so thinking of that rather than my little darlings in my back garden).
H :)
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It is going to be a bit of nightmare for commercial producers :wacko:
According to the detailed plan you can get from the link above, supervised access to enclosed outdoor areas, does apply to all, if you meet the criteria. Page 5 - section C
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/590529/ai-prevention-zone-plans-28_february-2017.pdf
I won't, even if I am deemed to not to be in a high risk area. I have way too many wild birds in my garden hopping around and without netting the whole thing, no way to keep them out. My wildlife pond is tiny and doesn't attract ducks or anything, but wild birds drink from it. I can fence it off but it isn't getting drained as the frogs will be gearing up soon.
I also get geese and other birds from the nearby river flying over back and forth between their night time sleeping places at the gravel pits and the grassy margins of the Thames and the playing fields either side of it.
Mine can sit it out a bit longer and stay safe :)
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The interactive map is here:
http://www.gisdiseasemap.defra.gov.uk/intmaps/avian/map.jsp
I don't think I'll be letting my birds out for a while even though I am outside of the high risk area (but high risk areas are very close to me).
I do want to extend, move (and still cover) my run so need to work out when is best to do this.
H
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Waiting for Wales to say something.
Thinking ahead, is there a way of sanitising grass, that won't kill it?
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Re the grass issue - could you brush bio dri or stalosan over it? Anyway, what grass? Mine hasn't recovered from being scratched to death by the hens prior to their confinement!
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Lol! Beginning of winter when grass growth slows down I take them off the lawn. We have a big gravellled area with mature shrubs, sleeper steps, etc. Lots of interest and great for digging and bug finding, and keeps them relatively clean. Normally, that would be their winter free range area.
Now the lawn is showing signs of waking up was really looking forward to letting them lose to eat grass again.
Does Stalosan work for avian flu? I use it in the coop and run, but it's not on defras list. Big area to cover anyway. Spray would be more practical.
If, if course, it is actually necessary? I'm finding it a bit confusing.
Wonder how commercial free range will cope.
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Thinking ahead, is there a way of sanitising grass, that won't kill it?
Nice bit of sunshine ? :)
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I'm considering covering a patch of ground now so I can harvest the chickweed when it eventually starts growing. That way I can feed my budgies without worrying that it might be contaminated.
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is the supervised area netted on top or not? I'm not in a zone with very few birds in the garden (dog and chickens do not allow). I am the only one housing chickens and everyone elses are fine. Mine want out.
I will debris net the lower section of the run due to the rest has plastic sheeting.
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The way it reads at the moment, I'd say probably the range area won't need to be netted if not in a high risk zone. Be interested to hear others understandings though.
I'm guessing it will become clearer the nearer we get to the date. Best to keep checking.
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The way it reads at the moment, I'd say probably the range area won't need to be netted if not in a high risk zone. Be interested to hear others understandings though.
I'm guessing it will become clearer the nearer we get to the date. Best to keep checking.
I didn't know there had been any change - sounds as if things might be improving slowly.
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Thanks for that; I thought it meant that. Just need to drain a pond, then either net or remove (due to be moved this year)
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Just ordered some netting so I can enclose the run. My chickens are getting tetchy now and the ducks are going scatty.
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What do others think about having to net over the 'range' or not? Am I reading it right or not?
I thought it could be open, but I'm not 100 % sure.
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Not an easy read is it? I and one of my colleagues spent the first hour of the day reading, digesting and discussing this! (on the tenuous proviso that it was "work").
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Well I would say if it was open there wouldn't be much point. Passed a farm on my way home tonight with a large flock of hens, ducks and geese all out in the open roaming a field at the side of the house. :mad: :mad: :mad:
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I read it as out and not netted (but supervised) if not in any of the zones - as long as you have cleaned the area if prone to any wild fowl flying over.
So come March 1st, I'm am not in a prevention zone my geese and chooks are going out in separate fields.........yay.
Nothing as sad as a goose who has spent their life out being cooped up........and now wants to build nests and lay eggs. I hope the zones don't change.
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I don't understand what netting would achieve as any bird droppings would come through with rain. The netting is also mainly to stop dove and bigger, so smaller birds will be caught in it.
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This s very true, makes you wonder if its just an economic decision so people don't lose free range status.
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I have now seen on the interactive map that I will be in a higher risk area, despite the nearest outbreak being miles and miles away. But if I lived a mile down the road I would be free to let my girls out from March. Absolutely gutted. DEFRA are following the washes locally, but have drawn a straight line rather than the true path. If they did that then I'd be ok. I can only hope that they reconsider the areas before the end of the month. Or I may have to move.....
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Just been on a Facebook chicken group. The debate about netting is raging. It's really not clear at all, especially as someone has spoken to DEFRA and been told to use netting to keep separate from wild birds.
Also that grass can't be sanitised because it is organic........ so where does that leave us?
On concrete under netting? Might as well stay in the run?
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Whooper swan found dead in Norfolk
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It is hard making decisions and finding information.
My birds (budgies not chooks) are out in their outside flight as it's warm inside today. Taking a chance?
I think we are safe as the outside flight is double meshed and the roof covered in corrugated plastic.
It would not be fair to keep them shut in for weeks on end as the inside flight is far smaller.
Here's hoping the outbreak will soon be over and everyone can get back to normal.
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Was down the allotment today and quite a bit of chickweed, chard and spinach growing away. Great, I thought, the girls will love some of this, but then stopped myself as I can't be sure that nothing has contaminated it. That made me wonder about the stuff I'm currently buying for the girls from the supermarket - doubt if that has been grown under cover - Spring greens locally grown, spinach from Europe. Is it safe to feed the girls shop bought stuff? Perhaps I need to source everything from Peru! :unsure:
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Mine are cabbage fans at the mo. I take off the outer leaves with just that in mind.
Now that light levels are improving I'll be growing trays of grass and easy greens in the conservatory.
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Was down the allotment today and quite a bit of chickweed, chard and spinach growing away. Great, I thought, the girls will love some of this, but then stopped myself as I can't be sure that nothing has contaminated it. That made me wonder about the stuff I'm currently buying for the girls from the supermarket - doubt if that has been grown under cover - Spring greens locally grown, spinach from Europe. Is it safe to feed the girls shop bought stuff? Perhaps I need to source everything from Peru! :unsure:
Wash it thoroughly under cold running water - that should help I would have thought.
Alternatively had you thought of giving a boiled mash? Potato peelings and bran was what my dad used along with (you might prefer not to include this:) minced fish heads from the fish monger. :unsure:
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Haven't seen a fishmonger for years. Defra wouldn't be happy with you cooking for your girls, but I say sod Defra, there a waste of time anyway.
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If organic material can't be santisied according to DEFRA, then why will water do the trick? Otherwise with all this rain the grass would be fine, or you could power wash it to get rid of any potential problems. I think I'll follow the advice of removing the outer leaves. Can't do that with spinach, but guess if it's come from a country with no avian flu then that's the best purchase.
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In areas where the restrictions are light I'd have thought reasonable precautions were probably all that are now needed. Up to the individual to work with defra's guidelines I'spose.
When using a pack of spring greens from a supermarket we discovered some small bright blue pellets. Looked for all the world like slug bait. Surely not. Washed them off and had them (the greens not the blue bits) with the veg for dinner.
Interestingly not the first time we've come across the same thing...... but the rabbit wasn't allowed any because of the little blue pellets.
Makes you wonder what else we end up ingesting from our veg both bought and grown. Always pays to wash it first. I wasn't too keen on the idea of spraying antibac.
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Sad to hear there's another outbreak, in Suffolk this time:
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/controls-for-avian-influenza-introduced-around-site-in-suffolk
Regards :(
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A breeding shed for chickens, which will have a knock on effect for meat and egg production
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Alternatively had you thought of giving a boiled mash? Potato peelings and bran was what my dad used along with (you might prefer not to include this:) minced fish heads from the fish monger. :unsure:
Probably illegal under DEFRA's no scraps rules... which we all adhere to with the same obedience as a cat who's been told not to lick that bowl of cream
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[/quote]
Probably illegal under DEFRA's no scraps rules... which we all adhere to with the same obedience as a cat who's been told not to lick that bowl of cream
[/quote]
This is possibly my favourite quote of the year, I laughed so hard tea came out my nose!
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Alternatively had you thought of giving a boiled mash? Potato peelings and bran was what my dad used along with (you might prefer not to include this:) minced fish heads from the fish monger. :unsure:
Probably illegal under DEFRA's no scraps rules... which we all adhere to with the same obedience as a cat who's been told not to lick that bowl of cream
Could well be wrong but isn't it ok to feed these things as long as they have not been in a kitchen?
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Could well be wrong but isn't it ok to feed these things as long as they have not been in a kitchen?
My understanding is that it is OK legally to use scraps from a vegetarian household kitchen so avoiding contamination with meat - are fish heads meat? Do we peel potatoes outside? Will I be arrested if the hens sneak in the kitchen and eat the cat's food?
The ways of DEFRA are exceedingly difficult for mere mortals to fathom..
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It's one of those rules that asks to be broken, but there is logic behind it somewhere. Think it was after mad cow disease which came about because animals were being fed animal waste, I dont mean poo, but left over bits and pieces. ie food scraps.
That's what it's trying to prevent. We are what we eat, and so are chickens!
There's a post on here near the top outlining DEFRAs stance.
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It's one of those rules that asks to be broken, but there is logic behind it somewhere. Think it was after mad cow disease which came about because animals were being fed animal waste, I dont mean poo, but left over bits and pieces. ie food scraps.
That's what it's trying to prevent. We are what we eat, and so are chickens!
There's a post on here near the top outlining DEFRAs stance.
I thought it was salmonella that prompted it. Regardless, it's effectively unenforceable and, in my opinion, crazy to apply to domestic keepers. (In theory you can get 2 years in clink!)
Rules that make sense for keepers of 50,000 + birds applied to those with 3 hens in the garden.
Nevertheless, I cannot promote the feeding of scraps without risking the wrath of the law whatever I may think of it.
Yanking back on topic - I fully agree with and support the rules regarding avian flu which potentially is a massive threat.
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Yanking back on topic - I fully agree with and support the rules regarding avian flu which potentially is a massive threat.
Just a shame a lot of people don't follow them and no one seems to enforce them.
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Us folks in Wales have a form to fill in which must be available for inspection!
http://gov.wales/docs/drah/publications/170216-avian-influenza-prevention-zone-self-assessment-form-en.pdf
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:nowink:
Designed for the large keeper not a backyard.
Having passed 7 yes SEVERN farms and small holdings over the weekend all with flocks outside with no separation, and after reporting two separate places, one of witch is open to the public and nothing being done I have now given up. My girls are out (under netting) and will not be contained in the future.
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... My girls are out (under netting) and will not be contained in the future.
And the law of sod dictates that you will be the one to get it. ::)
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My thought as well ::)
The form on the link Flowerpower has given does say it is for everyone, not just large scale keepers.
Some people are ignoring the restrictions, but that has made me more sure keeping mine in is the right decision. I can't make garden secure from wild birds, but I can protect my lot from interacting with them as much as possible. They are roofed and their food can't be got at, neither can infected droppings rain in on them or their run.
They are being pretty good about it and seem content enough.
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To add to confusion, before I saw the form and the latest on the Welsh Government website, I had taken the trouble to phone the Welsh APHA office this morning, and was told something completely different.
Lady on the helpline was adamant that the current order had been extended to end April and ALL birds had to stay in in Wales regardless of improved biosecurity.
:mad:
Total joke.
I've just complained to my MP and set him the task of finding out who I should believe.
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The form on the link Flowerpower has given does say it is for everyone, not just large scale keepers.
It is for all keepers, but just those of us in Wales. :wacko:
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The form on the link Flowerpower has given does say it is for everyone, not just large scale keepers.
It is for all keepers, but just those of us in Wales. :wacko:
Yes and they say they have declared the whole of Wales to be a prevention zone, but then offer a part 2 of the form to allow birds out with caveats. A prevention zone in England means you don't get the option at all :wacko:
Clear as chicken poop, but until the reports of new outbreaks stop, I'm using my own judgement and playing safe ;)
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A farmer friend of mine who has half a dozen geese and a few hens has his still roaming. He said he would make them secure and follow guidelines if it was the other way round and all the wild birds were at a threat by catching it off his birds.
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BBC news reporting on free-range eggs issue given the current restrictions
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39037406
DEFRA have added a video to this page specifically for backyard keepers. Scroll about halfway down.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/avian-influenza-bird-flu-in-winter-2016-to-2017
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I am hoping that the restrictions will be lifted in some areas at the end of the month
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I have just tried the DEFRA interactive map for Avian flu risk analysis. Type in a place name Birmingham, result not found, so I tried the county West Midlands ditto :mad: :mad:
A search on Midlands produced amongst other far away places Galloway????? :wacko:
Who on earth produces this rubbish.
However, it is looking hopeful if I get my birds some wellies and tie their beaks up :D :D :D :D
Here's hoping common sense prevails and we can free them on 28th. All the wild birds round here look ok, ducks on the canal, the Herons, pigeons, Gulls, Robin etc.
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New outbreak Haltwhistle, Northumberland, small flock on a farm
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Im really hope this latest outbreak doent postpole the ban being lifted, my sisters going to be in a restriction zone after the 28th and she want s he to adopt her flock (20 ex batt) but I can only do that at the moment if i can let them out, my coverd runs not big enough.....
+ my girls want to get out in the sun!
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GB AVIAN INFLUENZA PREVENTION ZONES - UPDATE FROM APHA
27 February 2017
From tomorrow (28 February) new Avian Influenza Prevention Zones come into force in England, Scotland and Wales.
Poultry keepers must continue to follow enhanced biosecurity measures to minimise the risk of infection from wild birds.
More information about arrangements in England is available at: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/avian-influenza-bird-flu.
More information about arrangements in Scotland is available at: http://www.gov.scot/avianinfluenza.
More information about arrangements in Wales is available at: http://gov.wales/topics/environmentcountryside/ahw/disease/avianflu/?lang=en.
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Pembrokeshire, a wild Widgeon
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It does seem to be easing off - thank goodness.
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According to the maps available I am in a High Risk Area.. :(
But my budgies are out each day in the flight for a few hours as the local temperatures are up and they need a cooler environment - being stuck in an increasingly warm bird house is resulting in an early moult.
Their outside flight is double meshed with a corrugated plastic roof so I'm hoping for the best.
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Sad to see no comments about the latest update from DEFRA. https://www.gov.uk/guidance/avian-influenza-bird-flu
I was hoping to let mine out at the end of the Month (I'm just inside one of those random high risk areas) but the new rules continue the Prevention Zone controls with no end date in sight.
I suffer from mental health issues and getting my two chickens was supposed to help with that, and it did. However it looks increasingly likely that the only sensible thing for me to do is get rid of them as rather than improve my mental health, imprisoning them like this has only stressed both them and me (just imagine two chickens crying for hours on end and pacing up and down getting increasingly agitated, especially when it's sunny - they just want to be out exploring the world). I've not been able to pick them up for months and they used to love knocking on the door with their beaks to be let in to say hello to me and have a treat. My garden is quite small, and half of it has been netted since the restrictions. Needless to say that half is now bereft of any grass and other vegetation so needs replanting. They are used to free ranging outside the garden, at this rate keeping them in the other half of the garden and that will need replanting by the end of the summer. It's totally impractical.
And anyway, the prevention zone controls are unworkable. The garden is the way into and out of the house. Does one really think the postman is going to use foot baths and a boot brush? Use a scarecrow to keep wild birds away? Are they mad? I live in the middle of the countryside, surrounded by fields and woods, there are thousands of birds here. When I have the door open in the warm weather they even fly in and out the house all the time, which is wonderful!
Also, it doesn't matter if the garden gate is closed, the chickens will still jump over it to go where they want if I let them out of the netted area. So what option do I have but continue to keep them imprisoned? I have to think of both my mental health and the quality of life of the chickens and as I say, at this rate the only logical thing to do would be top get rid of them.
Is this prevention Zone now a permanent thing or not? The DEFRA website gives no clues as to how long these stupid restrictions are to last. . .
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I'm in a high risk area as well, so mine are staying in for now, but there is a lot you can do to keep them busy.
You can hang up cabbage, or spring greens to peck. Their mixed corn germinates into a thick mat of wheat grass that will grow in seed trays or pots, same with grass seed. You could even pot up a few dandelions to grow for them.
Chickens are very adaptable creatures. Mine have accepted confinement without much fuss at all. I have fully enclosed runs, so I scatter seeds for them as well (the finch type mixes that take a long time to pick up) as well as their treats of greens.
If you want contact with them, a handful of seeds get mine over to eat out of my hand :)
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Mine have accepted confinement without much fuss at all.
Lucky you, as I said, mine haven't. Of course I've been scattering seeds, that's why they've scratched the flower bed and grass until there's nothing left and it all needs replanting.
If you want contact with them, a handful of seeds get mine over to eat out of my hand :)
Eh? As I said in my post, they are in a netted area, I'm (obviously) outside it. It's physically impossible for me to have direct contact with them unless I let them out of the netted area. And if I do that they will jump over the garden gate.
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Mine have accepted confinement without much fuss at all.
Lucky you, as I said, mine haven't. Of course I've been scattering seeds, that's why they've scratched the flower bed and grass until there's nothing left and it all needs replanting.
It was just a friendly suggestion Manxminx. You didn't mention scattering seeds so I wouldn't have known, would I?
If you want contact with them, a handful of seeds get mine over to eat out of my hand :)
Eh? As I said in my post, they are in a netted area, I'm (obviously) outside it. It's physically impossible for me to have direct contact with them unless I let them out of the netted area. And if I do that they will jump over the garden gate.
I can't get inside my small run either, but I can reach in to hand feed, same as I can reach in to replenish the water and food :)
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All restrictions (except preventative measures re bio security) were lifted on Thursday for England. Someone must have told my girls, as they lined up by the gate to their run at 6.30am and wouldn't shut up until they were released!
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All restrictions (except preventative measures re bio security) were lifted on Thursday for England. Someone must have told my girls, as they lined up by the gate to their run at 6.30am and wouldn't shut up until they were released!
I was also about to post that the ban has thankfully at long last been lifted 👍 woo hoo 😊
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You didn't mention scattering seeds so I wouldn't have known, would I?
Sorry, I thought it would go without saying that I've been doing things like that, hanging up cabbages etc. It's all part of basic chicken keeping.
same as I can reach in to replenish the water and food
I do that at night once they've gone to bed. If I try to lift a small section of the netting during the day they try to force themselves out through it, which only increases both their and my stress levels.
I'm probably going to do as I had previously decided and wait until the end of the month (hopefully there'll be more insects and snails etc about by then) and then let them out. If they jump over the gate and go exploring freely then that's their right and I won't be trying to stop them.
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All restrictions (except preventative measures re bio security) were lifted on Thursday for England. Someone must have told my girls, as they lined up by the gate to their run at 6.30am and wouldn't shut up until they were released!
I was also about to post that the ban has thankfully at long last been lifted 👍 woo hoo 😊
The ban has been lifted but if you are in a high risk area, you are still required to apply bio-security measures. These effectively put you on the same level as everyone else when the restrictions were eased last time i.e. fenced runs, deterring wild birds and keeping them away from feed and water.
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/608533/ai-prevention-zone-rules-from-13-april-2017.pdf
My garden is full of wild birds and I have a wildlife pond a.k.a. wild bird drinking station. If I leave the run doors open, the sparrows and the robins are straight in there. I'm sure the risk from them is low, but it is cross contamination.
I also get geese flying over morning and evening. I am a bit more suspect of them as they could easily pick up the virus and pass it on. Reading has huge populations of swans, ducks and geese, as so many people feed them and the river is lined with playing fields where they have as much grass as they want.
As things warm up, the risk gets less and less as the virus degrades much faster, so hopefully not too long before we get a full all clear :)
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I'm probably going to do as I had previously decided and wait until the end of the month (hopefully there'll be more insects and snails etc about by then) and then let them out. If they jump over the gate and go exploring freely then that's their right and I won't be trying to stop them.
That's a pretty good, common sense approach :) I was thinking along the same lines. If no further outbreaks occur and the weather stays warm, so the virus doesn't hang about, the risk is low enough imo.
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My budgies are in and out of their covered flight enjoying the warmer weather and looking for rain - they love it.
It was getting too warm for them to stay shut in the bird room so...... here's hoping.