Pickled Onions

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chrissie B

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Pickled Onions
« Reply #15 on: December 17, 2007, 12:33 »
its got lots of uses i use it to descale my kettle , i also use lemons for descaling, try to keep the chemicals down to a minimum.clearing the drains and all sorts of stuff soda bicarb is good too i think there is a good thread some where about soda.
when we came here we brought a 5lt bottle of vinager from the shop its the one you dilute cos we like it strong on our chips , the greek vinager isnt very strong .
chrissie b
Woman cannot live by bread alone , she must have cake , biscuits cheese and the occasional glass of wine .🍷

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mushroom

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Pickled Onions
« Reply #16 on: December 17, 2007, 13:59 »
Quote from: "WG."
I only ask since malt vinegar starts out by being brewed; the alcohol then being oxidised into natural acetic acid.

The yeast used in the brewing process is killed off by the very alcohol it is itself producing.  Much above 10-12% kills the yeast.

Ergo, I'd conclude that 20% abv vinegar could only be obtained by boiling off half the volume or by using synthetic acetic acid.

Where's mushroom when you need him?  Do you happen to know mate?


:)

I'd need to look up the data sheet to see if boiling reduces or increases concentration. If it forms an azeotrope with water (like ethanol), you may find that it boils off at a lower temperature than its pure boiling point would suggest.

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mushroom

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Pickled Onions
« Reply #17 on: December 17, 2007, 14:07 »
OK, yes it does form a binary azeotrope. An azeotrope is a constant-boiling point mixture. From its data sheet:
                                                pure BP %age   BP of azeotrope
Ethanoic acid   H-(CH2)-COOH    118.1    3.0%    76.6

This is why you can add vinegar to a stew let's say, and if you boil it for long enough, it drives all the vinegar away (because the azeotrope BP is 76.6 C)

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gobs

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« Reply #18 on: December 17, 2007, 14:16 »
So, what does that trans late into, then? It's starting to be a bit geeky to me...
"Words... I know exactly what words I'm wanting to say, but somehow or other they is always getting squiff-squiddled around." R Dahl

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mushroom

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Pickled Onions
« Reply #19 on: December 17, 2007, 14:22 »
it basically means that you cannot concentrate vinegar by simple boiling because the vinegar binds with water (forms a constant boiling point mixture) (97% water, 3% vinegar) at 76 C

I have turned my geek off, honestly  :oops:  :lol:

EDIT: sorry WG. but the above illustrates why boiling vinegar for long enough  will destroy its acidity.

[geek mode=on]
Have a peek at http://www.chem.queensu.ca/people/faculty/Mombourquette/FirstYrChem/Liquid_Soln/index.htm

and scroll down to the section on azeotropes and then on to the next section.

[geek mode=off]

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Aunt Sally

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« Reply #20 on: December 17, 2007, 17:18 »
You're quite right as you often are Mushroom. It is also why you can make a fabulous sauce by reducing balsamic vinegar and adding a little sugar.

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WG.

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Pickled Onions
« Reply #21 on: December 17, 2007, 17:25 »
Quote from: "mushroom"
If it forms an azeotrope with water (like ethanol), you may find that it boils off at a lower temperature than its pure boiling point would suggest.
There are many places in this area who have made an art form out of separating these two  :wink:  8)

I'll have me thermometer ready for my next batch of chutney  :lol:

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gobs

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Pickled Onions
« Reply #22 on: December 17, 2007, 18:28 »
So how is then the 20% vinegar achieved without a synthetic smell?

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Aunt Sally

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« Reply #23 on: December 17, 2007, 18:48 »
Quote from: "gobs"
So how is then the 20% vinegar achieved without a synthetic smell?

What do you mean by "synthetic smell" gobs  :?:

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Aunt Sally

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« Reply #24 on: December 17, 2007, 18:56 »
I think you can make strong vinegar from an alcohol distillate.

I've found a good use for your wisky after all WG  :lol:

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gobs

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« Reply #25 on: December 17, 2007, 18:57 »
Now, that's a tough one Aunty, to explain smells in English, ex. nail varnish remover.

Easier the other way round, it just smells pleasantly sour, no extras.

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Aunt Sally

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« Reply #26 on: December 17, 2007, 18:59 »
Quote from: "gobs"
it just smells pleasantly sour, no extras.


That I understand dear  :D

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gobs

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« Reply #27 on: December 28, 2007, 17:09 »
Quote from: "WG."

And, gobs, do you know if that strong strong vinegar is made from malt vinegar or whether it is synthesised acetic acid?


It's prepared (don't ask how) from some wood product or synthetic acetic acid diluted by water and/or vinegar to required strength.

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WG.

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Pickled Onions
« Reply #28 on: December 28, 2007, 21:08 »
Quote from: "gobs"
Quote from: "WG."

And, gobs, do you know if that strong strong vinegar is made from malt vinegar or whether it is synthesised acetic acid?


It's prepared (don't ask how) from some wood product or synthetic acetic acid diluted by water and/or vinegar to required strength.

Wood vinegar I think I'll stick to 5% malt vinegar thank you  :wink:

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gobs

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« Reply #29 on: December 28, 2007, 21:27 »
But then there is a difference between industrial and eating grade, though.



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