[chrissie B]

So glad to hear there is something going to be done about waste , the bottle machines are not a new idea greek beer makers have been doing it for a while and even then i said great idea dont know if they do plastic though .some one once said look to the stars but ithink we need to start looking to whats around out feet and if we dont throw it in the street then we wont have to pick it up .
chrissie b

[oldgrunge]

Well said, Christie. The Scandinavians, Germans, Austrians have been doing this for years. Someone on the radio today, busy saying how it won't work, there's no room for the machines, unwashed bottles will smell, etc, etc. Funny how other countries manage. Could it be that we're lazy, and we'd rather just live amongst piles of rubbish.

[jaydig]

I agree that we need to recycle every possible scrap of plastic, metal, paper etc. but it would be preferable if there was considerably less of it in the first place.  It is now many years since the problem of plastic waste reared its head, but there are still piles of plastics that can't be recycled.  It is also almost impossible to buy items without their being wrapped or packed in unnecessary plastic containers or bags.  I don't really need my mushrooms packed into plastic boxes, covered in plastic wrap, nor fruit packed into bags. Fresh chickens almost always have a plastic tray underneath them which is totally unnecessary as they are already tightly wrapped in plastic. Polystyrene moulds to hold various foodstuffs in place could be made from card instead.  Thank goodness we manage to grow most of our own fruit and veg, at least that cuts out a lot of plastics, but I'm sure the manufacturers could do far more to eliminate the overuse of packaging.

[Veg Plot 1B]

Brought some wine from supermarket asked it they had any more cardboard carry boxes. Was told they have stopped doing them in favour of strong plastic carry bags.

You buy a chicken that is wrapped in plastic then it is placed in plastic bag.

[rowlandwells]

I think its a good idea to reduce plastic where possible but I also think its a pipe dream not to come true unless we educate those who participate in dumping bottles cans without a thought for the environment

when we walk our daughters dog down the back road of the village the ditches are absolutely full of plastic bottles beer cans bottles and the grass verge is littered with dog poo and sheep graze this gated road its just irresponsible people that litter when they could take the cans and bottles home or pick the poo up and place in poo bins provided and if its bagged it usually ends up in the hedge in little black bags

that's not to mention the other rubbish discarded in farmer hedges talk about our green and pleasant land  where's that and shortly our  council are introducing a new recycling bin sounds good but there also putting restrictions on rubbish put in the normal rubbish bins so where will that go if only it was taken to the recycling centre don't hold your breath it wont happen

[grinling]

we ship plastic waste to China, but they are refusing it now as it is cross contaminated. Land fill is sent to Sweden for burning to provide heat and hot water
Lincolnshire burns landfill for heating.
Lincoln has recyclable bins in the shopping areas.
I buy meat from the butchers, this is not shrink wrapped and not always leak proof.

[rowlandwells]

that's an interesting reply grinling as I have to say food rapped in plastic containers  in the supermarkets don't usually leak and I can remember going to the butchers shop when the rapped there meat in grease  proof paper

but from what your saying burning seems the best way to recycle plastic burning to heat and provide hot water

 I don't believe its all down to us in the UK polluting the sea with waste plastic although we have to take some of the blame but we need do our bit to tidy up both the sea and the country we also need to be more aware of those fly tippers with stronger penalties from the courts when these people go to court

[AnnieB]

May work if they have decent recycling machines. There used to be some of what they describe here at a local Tesco, problem was they were out of order so many times they removed them. I lost count of the times I had tried to put in plastic bottles to get told "Item unrecognised". It really became painful after you had stood there for 20 or more minutes and were placing in one item at a time to get informed half the time that it didn't recognise the item and you had to try again. And they were real slow.

For all they had 2 machines the number of people and items just lead to it's demise. Eventually people gave up and just left bags of plastic bottle etc around the machine. So they removed the recognition machines and had simple plastic bottle deposit "skips". These overfilled and were full and the smell was awful, so was the mess.

People tried but the system behind the idea was insufficent. It didn't fail owing to people not willing to recycle but to no one fulfilling the next step in the chain. The basic removal and recycling of the plastic bottles given up for recycling.

My fear or concern is that it is kind of half done and never actually accomplishes what the expected intention is. Along the idea that every town must or will have one, but 1 machine in a town of 20,000 means a long queue.

We do have a habit of thinking a recycling machine here or there and that will "fix" it all. Reality is 4 or 5 recycling machines in a town of 20,000 all managed, maintained and emptied at frequent intervals.  Twice daily. Somewhere like Cambridge is likely to mean a minimum of say 50. Especially when the idea is to charge for the container so simply recycling them at the local centre means you lose out.

Germany and other parts of the continent have been doing it successfully, but they also plough the money and backup into it. Just cannot see the UK actually doing what is really required. Be honest, if the choice is 20 machines at £50,000 each for a reliable service or someone saying we might be able to get by with 6 machines and we can buy from Achme-Joke Recyclers at £22,000 each. Which way will governemt decide to go? And why would they care, the tax on the bottle has been collected, poor refund machinery means it is not then returned.

Poor view of ourselves I suppose but I don't think things will change overnight, and that is the apparent perception. Germans have a different concern about their country then we seem to have. I recycle all I can at a waste management place in the next town. Next town because I would actually guess that little I put in the recycling bin at the house is actually recycled, my local waste management centre I doubt really performs much recycling either. Go down and the standard anwser is thrown it in the non-recyclable skip.

Could make things worse. If you cannot recycle it and get back the cost, then is there any point in not throwing it out the car window and adding to the roadside trash.

A more fundimental attitude is required, and that will not be overnight, and I doubt a charge will greatly help, likely just annoy.

[snowdrops]

Our local council is high up in the recycling tables I believe, there are a few bins round the town for recycling small amounts of waste (whilst out shopping type thing). Most supermarkets have bins to recycle the major things, plastic/bottles/card /paper. Our recycling bin is changing again as of yesterday now it is being done in-house again, now card/paper/glass/plastic all goes into 1 bin as opposed to a caddy within it for paper/card. So that will be easier from a householders point of view.
I do worry what happens to it when it leaves my property or my county. I think the answer as with most things is in the education of people, to not just chuck it away for someone else to clean up. But there is a responsibility for governments to go as far as banning certain products from entering the country that cannot be recycled or only at great costs. It really is time for us as a whole race to stop being blasé about our rubbish.
I also think it is appalling that we have & still do ship our rubbish off our little island for a 3rd world country to deal with ,knowing full well how their countries treat their people with regards to health & safety.
As for China I know a lot of it they produced in the first place but it’s time we stopped buying it from them in the first place, it was dodo to begin with & is just more dodo to finish with.

[rowlandwells]

there is and always will be some controversy over what is best answer to the disposal of plastic waste many people seem to put there two pennyworth of what should happen or blame the government but the fundamental argument is who's going to pay for this?

some insist the government should pay but ultimately that's being paid  by the taxpayer and some mite consider money would be better spent elsewhere

there are many of what to do with plastic waste but unless people get motivated to actually commit themselves to disposing of it properly and not only plastic but all forms of waste then its a non starter because its far easier to drop all your unwanted waste in the hedge or on the side of a secluded road and let the respective councils have the pleasure and the expense of clearing it up which again fall back on your council bill

we could talk about this till the cows come home and still not come up with an answer 

[grinling]

In Lincolnshire,when rubbished is dumped in a ditch it is the farmer who has to pay. The fact that someone has driven there instead of the tip I find astonishing.
The binman today emptied my neighbours waste into my bin ignoring the items which flew away, instead of emptying it on the lorry.

[Yorkie]

In Lincolnshire,when rubbished is dumped in a ditch it is the farmer who has to pay.

This is the situation across the country.  The landowner is responsible for dealing with the disposal of any waste on their land, irrespective of how it got there.

See this article - a slightly different situation in that it was the freeholder who was left responsible after tenants on the land left the waste behind.

The fact that someone has driven there instead of the tip I find astonishing.

When people have to pay commercial rates to dispose of waste, dropping it in a field somewhere remote seems a cheap (if illegal) alternative 

[al78]

some insist the government should pay but ultimately that's being paid  by the taxpayer and some mite consider money would be better spent elsewhere

well yes, I mean, who needs a clean environment anyway? It is not like fresh air and clean water are necessary for life.

Ultimately it should be the people who cause the problem who pay, so if we are really so short of money because it has been spent on nuclear missiles or whatever, put up the cost of goods which have excessive plastic packaging, and use the revenue towards dealing with the consequences. That goes some way towards internalising the costs, which is the primary problem, as long as the costs are externalised onto others or society, there is no incentive to do the responsible thing, because not doing so dumps the cost on someone else. Ideally what we need is for monetary cost to be correlated with ecological footprint, so things that contribute most to degrading the ecology are more expensive, and vice versa.

[New shoot]

I think this thread has run its course, so I'm locking it now.