[Muckytyke]

Hello everyone. I am new to the Hen House and I'm so pleased to have found such an informative and friendly forum. I've been reading the new posts for a week or so now and have been really taken aback by the problems that red spider mites can cause to chickens. I don't have any chickens yet but I'm soon going to build my own coop and run. I would like to "design out" the nooks and crannies where these nasty beasties live.

I will be using external plywood and planed timber to build the coop. I want to use PVA adhesive to screw and glue the structure of the coop so that I fill any crevices between the plywood and the framing. I am also considering coating the plywood interior to fill minor cracks in the plywood. Can someone please advise me whether PVA adhesive would harm the chickens? Is there another product that I could use? Does anyone have any other ideas that I could build in? Thanks very much - I hope I am supplying answers rather than all these questions very soon!

[Bogof]

I used the same materials as you except I used liquid nail. I also put the framework on the outside to reduce hiding places. I painted the entire coop with fence paint in an attempt to reduce holes.

[hillfooter]

Hi Muckytyke,

Welcome to the site and congratulations on deciding to become a chicken keeper and join the mad bonkers world of chicken enthusiasts.  If you haven't introduced yourself there's a welcome page you can use to tell everyone a bit about yourself.  i expect Joy or another mod will be along soon to direct you there.

Also congratulations on starting off on the right foot by learning a little about the art of keeping before rushing out and buying an inappropriate house and the first birds that catch your eye.  

There's a lot to learn and deciding on your system of husbandry is the starting point.  It must suit the space you have available and the time you have to maintain the runs and house.  If you have a labour intensive system or house design you will soon get fedup and neglect the routine cleaning tasks and your dreams of happy productive chickens wandering contentedly over a pristine lawn will quickly become a smelly insanitary eyesore with sickly chickens scratching about on fouled earth and producing poor quality eggs.  So time spent now on learning and planning will payback many fold in the future.

Once you know how much space you have and whether you are going for a system of moveable arks which is great if there's plenty of grass and you just want a few birds ((less than 6) as you can keep the grass growing by rotating the run.  For this you need an easily movable ark.  Another system of rotating runs is to have a semi movable ark and two adjoining runs you can use a rotational system with one run resting while you use the other.  You can use electric nets in a system of easily relocatable runs.  If you don't have the room for rotating runs you can build a fixed run and there are lots of possiblities from fully enclosed cages to tunnel type runs connected to a fixed house.  You will need to think about the floor material which will need regular cleaning and sanitising.  All these different systems will dictate a different house design, for example if you want it to be movable, fixed etc.

The following links will give you some general tips on run and house design and in particular internal design a much misunderstood topic.

http://chat.allotment-garden.org/index.php?topic=61242.msg711486#msg711486
http://chat.allotment-garden.org/index.php?topic=56897.msg670192#msg670192
http://chat.allotment-garden.org/index.php?topic=61068.msg709524#msg709524

First you need to recognise that a chicken house is not a wendy house for small people with lounges, dining areas and bedrooms it's first and foremost a dry, warm and secure place to roost at night for chickens.  In fact your birds should spend almost all of their daylight time in the run foraging.  For this reason you should not keep feeders and drinkers in the house where they will get knocked over or spilled and encourage vermin and unsanitary conditions.  Chickens don't eat or drink at night.  The key things to include in the house are roosts were the chickens will spend the night.  Ideally these should be a 'rack' of 4 to 6 perching bars about 50 - 70 mm wide rectangular with rounded edges.  The space between the perches should be 50 to 70mm similarly.  Underneath the perches should be a droppings area which the birds have no access to.  This should be easily accessible for cleaning.  Perches should be removable for cleaning.  Ideally the house should have a completely flat floor and all fittings should be lift out for cleaning so the litter can be swept out without it being trapped in a corner.  Apart from the perches the floor space can be minimal just to provide access to the perches and the nestboxes.  There's no virtue in allowing lots of floor space which just encourages the birds to scrat about in and foul.

The other thing normally included in a house are nestboxes.  It's  not essential they should be in the house and external nestboxes are equally acceptable to the chickens, however most houses have them.  Nestboxes ideally should be accessible to collect the eggs from outside.  They should have shutters to close them at night to discourage roosting in them so they get fouled and need cleaning out each morning.

A house should suit the needs of the birds and make life easy for you.  Get it wrong and the birds will roost on the floor among all the droppings or in their nestboxes which will also get fouled and be an insanitary location for the eggs.  You will spend an unnecessary amount of time poo picking the house and cleaning out the nestboxes each day.  Get it right and your work load is minimised the house will only need cleaning once every 2 to four weeks and the birds will have a clean sanitary environment without your constant attention.  That's the aim anyway.

Don't worry about  the glue the only thing to avoid is the flexible bathroom sealer type which the birds will pick out.  Best to use waterproof PVA glue though.  Don't use felt on the roof which is red mite heaven.  The roof can be corrigated bitumen board such as Onduline which is great for the job and provides natural under roof ventilation (most important).  Don't waste effort painting or treating the interior.  A light softwood natural finish is fine.  

Checkout Diatom which creates an unsuitable environment for red mite to colonise.  Use an insecticide which has a residual effect if (when) you do get them.
Best wishes for your new hobby you'll soon be addicted.

HF

[hillfooter]

I used the same materials as you except I used liquid nail. I also put the framework on the outside to reduce hiding places. I painted the entire coop with fence paint in an attempt to reduce holes.

I like the external framework idea.  Makes construction a bit more tricky but will help I think with RM.  I assume by paint you mean the cuprinol perservative type not exterior gloss for example which should not be used unless you want a major maintenance task each year.

Personally I wouldn't paint the interior at all, particularly a dark colour, which makes spotting RM very difficult and the house dark and dingy looking.
HF

[joyfull]

Hi Muckytyke,

Welcome to the site and congratulations on deciding to become a chicken keeper and join the mad bonkers world of chicken enthusiasts.  If you haven't introduced yourself there's a welcome page you can use to tell everyone a bit about yourself.  i expect Joy or another mod will be along soon to direct you there.

HF

Your wish is my command oh HF - here is the link to the welcome section 

http://chat.allotment-garden.org/index.php?board=12.0

Oh and welcome Muckytyke, like HF said you have come to the right place to ask about coups before you get started - this way people with loads of info will be able to help you with the pro's and cons of what makes a good coup. - I have 9 and now have redmite in 4 of them (for the first time ever  ) so whilst treating them I am saving up for a couple of giant coups made from recycled plastic so hopefully will not have this problem again (or if I do then treatment will be easier to deal with I hope  ).

[8doubles]

I used the same materials as you except I used liquid nail. I also put the framework on the outside to reduce hiding places. I painted the entire coop with fence paint in an attempt to reduce holes.

I like the external framework idea.  Makes construction a bit more tricky but will help I think with RM.  I assume by paint you mean the cuprinol perservative type not exterior gloss for example which should not be used unless you want a major maintenance task each year.

Personally I wouldn't paint the interior at all, particularly a dark colour, which makes spotting RM very difficult and the house dark and dingy looking.
HF

I painted the inside of my small coop so that any red mite would show up. People often have an odd tin of emulsion kicking around (some people can`t stick to a colour scheme  ) or you can buy one from a homestore bargain bin.
The hens are currently living with lilac walls and ceiling , rather them than me.

[ehs284]

Inside I've used silver hammerite. It stands up to a lot of cleaning and is good at filling in small cracks. It also dries quickly, so you can clean, repaint and put the chooks back all in the same day.

[hillfooter]

I used the same materials as you except I used liquid nail. I also put the framework on the outside to reduce hiding places. I painted the entire coop with fence paint in an attempt to reduce holes.

I like the external framework idea.  Makes construction a bit more tricky but will help I think with RM.  I assume by paint you mean the cuprinol perservative type not exterior gloss for example which should not be used unless you want a major maintenance task each year.

Personally I wouldn't paint the interior at all, particularly a dark colour, which makes spotting RM very difficult and the house dark and dingy looking.
HF

I painted the inside of my small coop so that any red mite would show up. People often have an odd tin of emulsion kicking around (some people can`t stick to a colour scheme  ) or you can buy one from a homestore bargain bin.
The hens are currently living with lilac walls and ceiling , rather them than me.

Well the colour scheme sounds lovely but I hope they have matching curtains!

Actually I 'paint' the inside, particularly the corners and perches with a slurry I mix from dilute disinfectant (use Vanodine V18 which works on dirty surfaces) a dash of fairy liquid with Diatom stirred in so it makes a thin batter consistancy.  Paint this in the RM freindly areas and it dries to an off white  caked on powder which is much less dusty than sprinkling the powder (an unhealthy practice) and RM can't live in it.  Periodically freshen it up after a deep clean  It also has the added advantage of being very drying which is why it can't be inhabited by RM, and chicken droppings don't stick so it helps with cleaning too.

Suspended dust in the air can iritate their respiratory systems as well as being a great vector for viruses thousands of which can float on a speck of dust and be breathed in so it's best to keep it down in the confines of the house.
HF

[hillfooter]

Oh and welcome Muckytyke, like HF said you have come to the right place to ask about coups before you get started - this way people with loads of info will be able to help you with the pro's and cons of what makes a good coup. - I have 9 and now have redmite in 4 of them (for the first time ever  ) so whilst treating them I am saving up for a couple of giant coups made from recycled plastic so hopefully will not have this problem again (or if I do then treatment will be easier to deal with I hope  ).

Red Mite Well I'm completety shocked Joy, but at least now you've had these unwelcome guests you can now claim to be a proper chicken keeper.  

How are you tackling them, are you using the black arts they practice there in Lincs or insecticide like us pragmatists in East Anglia?

I saw one of those recycled plastic houses recently (the ECO mini coop?) at Upton House gift shop boutique and I must say I wasn't impressed at all.  Being black it was so dark inside I couldn't see what the internal fittings were.  It was very small and didn't look easy to access without a strip down. Being mostly black plastic it looks like a chicken cooking stove in summer and a freezer in winter.  I couldn't see how to fit an auto door opener or closer so that made it a non starter for me.  The run was a joke it was so small I wouldn't keep guinea pig in it.  I hope you aren't thinking of one of these.  What a waste of good landfill.  At least wood is renewable looks good and with a little careful thought as Mucky tyke and Bigof are/have done they can be red mite manageable too.
HF

[joyfull]

the ones I saw are very large (same size as the pig arks) unclip easily so very easy to do a deep clean should you wish (although you can easily get a sweeping brush in there or even a dyson), and do not suffer with rot, they do keep cool in the summer and are warm in the winter. The little eco arks are by a different firm and do look tiny. I agree with the run side though but as mine don't have runs that isn't something I will consider. I also saw that the companies are now making chicken shelters out of recycled plastic - well I beat them to that by using lorry mudguards - plastic, recycled as they came off our lorries, and do the job just the same, some even are in a fetching shade of red 
As for treating redmite of course I am practising the black arts of Lincolnshire (after having lived here for ten years I have managed to pick some bits of it up  ) along with poultry shield and DM.
So next year I shall have 2 big new coups plus my eglu for a broody coup, one wooden broody coup (Grannie Annies Brian is altering it as the door design for cleaning out the coup was pathetic) and the little sablepoots palace.

Nice to know that you now think of me as a proper chicken keeper - wonder what I was for the last few years? 

[hillfooter]

the ones I saw are very large (same size as the pig arks) unclip easily so very easy to do a deep clean should you wish (although you can easily get a sweeping brush in there or even a dyson), and do not suffer with rot, they do keep cool in the summer and are warm in the winter. The little eco arks are by a different firm and do look tiny. I agree with the run side though but as mine don't have runs that isn't something I will consider. I also saw that the companies are now making chicken shelters out of recycled plastic - well I beat them to that by using lorry mudguards - plastic, recycled as they came off our lorries, and do the job just the same, some even are in a fetching shade of red  
As for treating redmite of course I am practising the black arts of Lincolnshire (after having lived here for ten years I have managed to pick some bits of it up  ) along with poultry shield and DM.
So next year I shall have 2 big new coups plus my eglu for a broody coup, one wooden broody coup (Grannie Annies Brian is altering it as the door design for cleaning out the coup was pathetic) and the little sablepoots palace.

Nice to know that you now think of me as a proper chicken keeper - wonder what I was for the last few years?  

I assume when you say DM you mean DE (Diatomaceous Earth) unless you've been boiling up Dead Mother-in-laws in your cauldron.

In the first 8 years I kept my own chickens I used wooden houses and never saw a RM but the the EU banned Derris Dust and I swiched to Barrier RM Powder and was inundated with the little horrors.  That year I tried every commercial product I could find on the market which I could get over counter and they were either useless or cost a fortune in the quantities I needed, or both.  In the end I needed a proper agro pesticide to do the trick and one application kept me free of RM for over a year. Cost me a fiver for 5 houses.  I also used the DE in a slurry to paint on as my earlier post on this thread.  I use a powerhose but a friend has great success with a steam cleaner but I wouldn't use the Dyson unless you want to sit scratching all night!  I'm not sure what shape your plastic houses might be in if you use a steam cleaner on them as RM can still infest plastic houses too they are just easier to clean off.   Ever wondered what happens to them once you've washed them off with water?  That's right they dry off and head straight back just like the itsy bitsy spider who came down the waterspout!  Which is why I think steam cleaning works best.  Incidentally the blow torch doesn't work longerterm other than it's quite satisfying to use and it's quite exciting not knowing if the house is going to burst into flames any second.  After a while the interior does look a bit blackened too.  

Mite are more closely related to spiders than insects and fly spray and houshold insecticides doesn't touch them and it's why I suspect the expensive Barrier spray & powder doesn't work as its active ingredient is a mosquito repellant.

Poultry Shield or any detergent (not soap) will work too.  I use fairy liquid though a cheaper economy washing up liquid may do the job cheaper.

Welcome to the real world of chicken keeping Joy.  What were you before?? - LUCKY just mitey LUCKY.
HF

[joyfull]

yes I did mean DE  . I am fortunate that at work we have a big industrial steam cleaner so that will be used on these coups I think 

[Muckytyke]

Many thanks to you all for the great information and knowledge that you have given me. I am overwhelmed!

Thanks Bogof for the 'framework on the outside' idea, that is a 'must have' in my coop and I will also be using cuprinol on the exterior.

Thank you Joyfull for your warm welcome, I shall be filling in some details in the welcome section soon. Sorry about your RM problem. I feel part of the family already! The one without the chickens!

Thanks for the laugh 8doubles but just where do you buy sunglasses for chickens?

Thanks ehs284, does the Hammerite soak into the plywood so that it doesn't flake off?

Thank you Hillfooter for the benefit of your experience and all of your time to type all of this into your reply. You seem to have the same approach to doing things as I do. i.e do it right the first time cos' it costs you less in the long run! (Old Yorkshire proverb, which gave everyone the idea that we are tight fisted!) I shall follow all your advice concerning feeders/drinkers/perches/floorspace/nestboxes/roofing and interior treatment etc. but can I ask a few more questions relating to these items?
I'll put the questions on another post.

Thanks again everyone!!

[joyfull]

ask as many questions as you like - we are one big happy family on here 

[birmancats]

Hi.  Hope you don't mind me jumping in.  I've been scouring these forums for the last two years learning what I can before taking the plunge and getting some bantams. 

My one sticking point before ordering the house is the size the actually coop/roost should be.  I'm between a 5'6 x 3 ft or a 3ft square.  Both options have the coop/roost raised a couple of feet off the ground and part of an overall 8x6 fixed house/run combo. Houses and runs on both have an onduline roof covering the house and the run.

Going to have 6 or 8 bantams.  Is 3x3ft square better for them in terms of keeping warm in winter than a 5'6x3ft. 

Thanks for your help.