[Dave NE]

One of the best reasoned arguments for the no dig garden/farm, Dave
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[Aunt Sally]

At 48 minutes long it's probably too long for a lot of our members to spend watching.

Would you like to write a synopsis of the arguments for us please, Dave.

[Dave NE]

I honestly couldn't do it justice as the video raises so many points about human life and how it has to change, she takes as one example how a simple ham salad sandwich takes so much gas and oil to produce, she goes on to say that rearing a pig for the table takes about 1/2 ton of grain for the ham and that huge greenhouses are heated using gas to produce the cucumber and tomato and the shear number of times a tractor has to go onto the field to make the grain. There is a video of one of her fields taken about 30 years ago and the tractor pulling the plough which has masses of birds behind it eating every thing in sight, a video today showing not a single bird behind the plough, there's nothing there to eat, the soil is dead. Theres also one young couple who have a farm but don't own a tractor, just a quad bike which uses less fuel, they have introduced about 20 different grasses into their pasture and have long horn cattle which don't need to be under cover in winter and because they have wide feet they don't damage the pasture which means they don't need to grow silage, and on and on, well worth a watch and I haven't even scratched the surface, cheers Dave

[surbie100]

Thanks Dave, am often up twiddling my thumbs in the wee small hours so will line it up for then. 

[Madame Cholet]

Thanks Dave right up my street I'll have a look

[Kevin67]

Agreed! It's a "Through-the-night" viewing! I'll watch this as soon as my wakefulness cracks!

[LotuSeed]

Interesting documentary so far....but I had a look at the related videos and clicked when I saw The Secret Life of Chickens😜 two vids added to the queue !

[superpete]

good one Dave - I'd heard of Fordhall farm but don't remember seeing this film - in the second half they talk about forest farming - if you're interested, have a look at this book written in 1929:- http://www.amazon.co.uk/Tree-Crops-Agriculture-Russell-Smith/dp/0933280440/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1421955407&sr=8-1&keywords=Tree+Crops%3A+A+Permanent+Agriculture.... there's many more recently written ones on the subject

[Madame Cholet]

I have creating A forest garden by Martin Crawford for Christmas 2013 my favourite gardening book now. I'm converting my 2nd plot I have planted the trees hedge and bushes and am laying on membrane and newspaper t kill the weeds. Th other plot is no dig beds.

[beesrus]

Would you like to write a synopsis of the arguments for us please, Dave.

I'll give a synopsis Aunty.
Quite a sweet film, good subject. Basically, the previously ridiculed permaculture is coming back into fashion ....well in a sense .... I don't think it's back in favour with those that dominate farming. Some good points made, but overly laboured to stretch it out. A peak oil derived logic. Stop tilling and destroying soil structure, grow those foods and varieties that don't need pesticides and fertilisers..... many more perennials.
Speaking as an old permaculture person, I would say permaculture well suits the small holding in an holistic economic sense, and of course even big farms for the time being until they can be redistributed into smaller units to give the micro bio-diversity needed for it to function fruitfully in a food sense. The film made the point we would need a small change in eating tastes, but that can be easily achieved. One specific point made was less meat, more nuts ... and many more trees/hedging that can be used as forage.... I'm into that one.
One other excellent point re iterated in the film that relates directly to us allotment/small garden growers ....our food productivity per square metre has long been 5 times that the best modern mass agriculture can muster, although grains and wheat in particular are a separate issue. How many hours we put in is another matter though 
Permaculture is a very difficult thing to do well on a small allotment surrounded by others who don't grow in the same way, so self sustaining organic growing is well more productive in my experience in the small spaces we have to grow in. Not only that, most landlords won't allow trees/animals etc.

So, to precis, permaculture MIGHT be the future ( if only ). Bless her, she's young. She hasn't the faintest idea how strong the forces are she's taking on, and of course, the whole thing would need massive land reform.
She touched on the NPK theory as just one theory. NPK came from the post war era with industries with their production lines and surplus product. Good film .. but too many shots of dreamy romantic cows and bees ... photographically it could have been a Tesco promo. Perhaps new young film makers are all GM cloned these days.

[Robster]

Well, I watched the film from start to finish and found it quite inspirational.  A good precise Beesrus.  I fully agree the big industry vested interest groups are a force for the status quo or at best very slow and reluctant change.  I'm not in farming but my industry (pharmaceuticals) has the same inertia.  She is young enthusiastic and an intellectual idealist, and I mean this in a very complimentary way.  Having these qualities changes things in the face of such opposition.

Other things I noted.  How important the knowledge is that we have.  Even us gardeners and allotment holders. Simple thing like the extra productivity from a bean trench or our companion planting and interspersing our crops successional planting etc etc.  The productivity that we as a group have.  Sure for most of us productivity per hour is pathetic but we all know that's not our only reason for doing it.

Thanks for sharing this vid.

[Aunt Sally]

Thanks for the summary, Beesrus

[John]

That's the 3rd time I've watched that documentary - OK, it's a bit fluffy and the chap predicting disaster by 2013 has been proven wrong but she raises some very valid points to at least consider.

Although we're seeing low oil prices right now, the trend is upwards. We won't run out for many years but the cost of recovery will increase. 30 years ago fracking would have been considered un-economic. Mind you, with the environmental effects of fracking you could argue that it is un-economic now.

The grass mix for pasture land was really interesting - sadly it requires study and research at a local level well beyond what seed companies or agri-biz are going to do.

I'm not sure she's got a valid point about ploughing - it can have very beneficial effects. The lack of birds following the plough is more to do with the general environment. Farmers are far more savvy about fertiliser use than they were - avoiding nitrogen run-off and reducing the input cost.

What is most probable according to the vast majority of scientists and researchers is that we will hit a perfect storm scenario by 2050 (I'll be dead most likely but my grandson will be 36)
1) Oil will be far more expensive than today
2) Population will be between 9 and 12 billion
3) Those poor countries will be richer and demanding more meat in their diet (as is happening now with China, India and wealthier parts of Africa)
4) Climate change will be causing massive problems with higher sea levels, changed rainfall patterns, storms beyond anything we're used to (increased energy in the system)

Can improved technology and genetic engineering save the day? Possibly. Would a change in attitude and approach be better? I'm sure it would but it would take a revolution and I don't see that happening. Then again, they do say any country is only 3 meals away from anarchy and revolution.

Never mind Dig for Victory, I think it will be Dig for Survival. The Cubans managed it when the Soviet Union went down taking their cheap fuel and fertilisers etc away. We will have to do the same.

I've