Allotment Gardening Advice Help Chat
Poultry and Pets => The Hen House => Topic started by: Viv on February 20, 2008, 17:08
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Has anyone tried this, and if so what do you think of it? I have copied the text from the Poultry Information Pages and apologise if I have breached copyright.
"One old fashioned poison that is safe is cheap and easy to make yourself is to mix equal parts of corn meal and plaster of paris and place it in the rat holes. The plaster of paris hardens in the stomach of the rat causing death."
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The plaster of paris hardens in the stomach of the rat causing death."
Ouch..... :shock:
Sorry I've only ever used trap and release, but by the sounds of the ingredients you want to make sure you get it right or you'll just make it worse by feeding corn.
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I've read about that too. Might not be as humane as modern poisons.
Sorry I've only ever used trap and release, but by the sounds of the ingredients you want to make sure you get it right or you'll just make it worse by feeding corn.
If you trap and release, is there any advice on where to release them ?
I've never enjoyed the thought of harming/killing them but can see that releasing in any but remote areas might just move the problem on.
Any advice on suitable locations ?
Rob
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Sorry folks but to trap and release rats is a no no they are vermin pure and simple. They bring nothing but trouble and disease.
You may even find it is illegal anyway
another recipe for homemade LINK (http://www.chat.allotment-garden.org/viewtopic.php?t=2827&highlight=homemade)
this one works well I've had a lot of success with it, but don't let pet rodents poultry birds etc eat it !
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Appreciate the situation Richy.
I did poison a rat just the once. Saw it a couple of days after and I presume it had only had a half dose because it was nearly bald and looked very emaciated.
I felt bl**&y awful for causing that sort of suffering on an animal. I wish there was a rat rescue trust who took unwanted vermin !! :?
It's one of those things that needs to be faced up to.
But my OH was listening to Radio Lincolnshire this morning and the local Police wildlife liaison officer was advocating shooting cats and squirrels (apparently) because they are considered pests.
We have done all we can to make our run and feed rat resistant. I hope that's enough to avoid making the decision.
Rob
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But my OH was listening to Radio Lincolnshire this morning and the local Police wildlife liaison officer was advocating shooting cats and squirrels (apparently) because they are considered pests.
CATS !!!!!!! I'm sure the RSPCA would have something to say about that :evil:
We have done all we can to make our run and feed rat resistant. I hope that's enough to avoid making the decision.
Rob
That's the best way forward Rob make it as hard as possible for them and they may well pass you by for something easier.
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Did you mean to say cats :?: :?: or was it meant to be rats
a slip of the fingers on the keyboard :roll: :lol: :lol:
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She says it was definitely CATS !!
He's just won an award from the WWf for his 'good' work.
I can only quote what my wife tells me but she's adamant he said they kill more wildlife each year than humans. I think I've probably hit more with my car (which i felt bad about and still do) than our cat.
I hope his personal opinions don't encroach on his professional work.
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Think I'll try the homemade poison on your link, its less likely to harm otrher creatures.
I suppose whatever you use the rat will have some pain. Apart from a gun and trap what is the quickest and most humane way to kill rats
does anyone know :?:
I can't help but feel squeemish about taking life, although they are filthy and disease ridden vermin
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Trick with the other one is to keep it dry, like I say don't let anything like birds, pet rodents etc eat it, basically if it can trump it should be ok if it eats it :D
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I think any poison is either cruel or will cause further problems when the rat crawls away and dies and
A Decomposes and stinks in a place you cannot get to
B Gets eaten by something you did not want to kill
C becomes immune to it ( Which they will ! ) so you have just wasted your time and money
Quickest way to dispatch rats is by shooting . But practice first, its inhumane to wound so a clean headshot is a must.
Second quickest is a dog. Instinct will kick in and one flick and the rats spine is snapped.
Whereas both these latter methods require conscious actions to lead to the death of the rat, which is what a lot of people find hard to face. ( How can one be a nature lover and kill?) they are in all the least cruel.
As for rats killing rabbits and chicks I would say this is the exception rather than the rule.....Rats would far rather eat grain than kill and eat flesh, we had a regular rat visitor that would sit in with the guinea pigs bold as brass and share their bowl of food.... Guinea pigs were not ever harmed.
Dog sorted that one out.
Its more likely that a mother rabbit would kill her offspring rather than a visiting rat killing them, animals do this, pigs are well known for killing their young.
But rats carry disease, steal and contaminate food, upset livestock, damage property and are generally a nuisance..and breed very fast if their lifestyle is left unchallenged.
But that is still no excuse for causing them to die in agony.........by poison... when there are far quicker cleaner ( Kinder?) methods of killing them
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How about spring traps of some sort ?
Do they dispatch them humanely ?
A gun of any sort is not an option. Don't have one and don't intend to get one. Our dog is deaf and arthritic. He can sniff them out (just!) but his chasing and killing days are a distant memory.
The cat is scared to go out of the house.
Our options are narrowing alarmingly. :?
Rob
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iI agree that a gun is out of the question, the people round here would go ballistic if they thjought there were any rats, I think that least known soonest mended. They have a town mentality trying to live in the country, without the country living with them. All of us know that rats go hand in hand with the country as there is a ready made food source all sround them. In our case they have access to water, we have a river running through our land, shelter, a wooded area and of course under the hen arc, and normally in the summer copious amounts of food from the crops grown beghind our field, the sheep, and the pigs. I want to reduce/eliminate the rat population that are near our chickens, Weils disease is a high risk and can kill and I feel that I am leaving myself open to this and not taking enough action to reduce the risk. Yes, baiting may be to some not the way to deal with rats, however, after looking at the options I am now researching to see if the new poisons are quicker in dealing with the rat with hardly any suffering .
Has anyone got any information on the new baits
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I'm very much a townie myself but, unlike our neighbour, do realise that rats are around everywhere along with our hedgehogs, mice, etc.
Between our houses is a disused graveyard, now a nature reserve of sorts, which is overgrown in places and has some junk in a corner. When we first spoke to him, his obsession was ridding the place of rats. I've never seen one but imagine they're about. We had resident Tawny owls last year which may have kept them in check. I've no idea about the balance in these situations. As I said earlier, we have designed the run to keep them out as best we can but if we get them, I'll have to do something. I guess if I had to, I could hit one with a spade but would not be comfortable with doing it. Comes down to being a problem within myself rather than right or wrong. If there's a less 'hands-on' method I'd prefer it.
I think Bodger is the pest control expert. Not seen him around for a while.
I'll do a search later for some archived posts on the subject.
Rob
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Munty has given lots of advice, he gives a link in one of the earlier posts in this thread. I am too sqeemish about killing anything and hubby would have to despatch anything that was hurt, I do need to toughen up. especially keeping poultry as the enevitable could happen that I have to despatch. I do keep reading the instructions and photos on the information part of the forum.
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I think it would be a case of a stiff drink, think of something pleasant and go into autopilot mode.
A bit like cleaning up after an ill cat or dog !
The one thing I don't want is a finger being pointed if a rat is seen. If I can say i've done all I can, then it must be them feeding the seagulls (and they do!) which is encouraging them. Strange how some creatures are seen as worth feeding and some as deadly enemies. I like to give everything an even chance unless the threat becomes too great.
Then it's time to toughen up as you say.
I just hope we can be tough enough.
R
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I think any poison is either cruel or will cause further problems when the rat crawls away and dies and
A Decomposes and stinks in a place you cannot get to
B Gets eaten by something you did not want to kill
C becomes immune to it ( Which they will ! ) so you have just wasted your time and money
Quickest way to dispatch rats is by shooting . But practice first, its inhumane to wound so a clean headshot is a must.
Second quickest is a dog. Instinct will kick in and one flick and the rats spine is snapped.
Whereas both these latter methods require conscious actions to lead to the death of the rat, which is what a lot of people find hard to face. ( How can one be a nature lover and kill?) they are in all the least cruel.
As for rats killing rabbits and chicks I would say this is the exception rather than the rule.....Rats would far rather eat grain than kill and eat flesh, we had a regular rat visitor that would sit in with the guinea pigs bold as brass and share their bowl of food.... Guinea pigs were not ever harmed.
Dog sorted that one out.
Its more likely that a mother rabbit would kill her offspring rather than a visiting rat killing them, animals do this, pigs are well known for killing their young.
But rats carry disease, steal and contaminate food, upset livestock, damage property and are generally a nuisance..and breed very fast if their lifestyle is left unchallenged.
But that is still no excuse for causing them to die in agony.........by poison... when there are far quicker cleaner ( Kinder?) methods of killing them
Totaly agree with everything you say stree, good post mate :D :D
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As for rats killing rabbits and chicks I would say this is the exception rather than the rule.....Rats would far rather eat grain than kill and eat flesh, we had a regular rat visitor that would sit in with the guinea pigs bold as brass and share their bowl of food.... Guinea pigs were not ever harmed.
Well the baby guinea pig was well and truely savaged and the rat shot out of the garage when I went in to feed the others. It was not in the cage as it had fallen out of a small gap in the door (my fault but didn't notice it till too late) so I have to disagree with you there :!:
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I do not doubt that, and I am sorry it happened, I know what it is like. But as I said, it is the exception and not the rule. Rats are vegetarians and will not fight to kill and eat an opponent/ prey but would generally rather eat grain.
Of course there are exceptions to every rule, and I am sorry to hear about the one you have been made all too aware of.....
I have kept guinea pigs for the last 15 years, and at one time for about a year a great big adult rat was visiting their open fronted cage nightly and feeding with them................The only animal that got harmed in this escapade was the rat when my dog killed it..........Then again, who is to say what might have happened if newborns were in the run as well?
Just like you, I can only share what I know and hope it helps others.
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Why then when I used to keep the food and grain in the chicken coop did Rattie kill the chicks and not just eat the grain??? :evil:
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As for rats killing rabbits and chicks I would say this is the exception rather than the rule.....Rats would far rather eat grain than kill and eat flesh, we had a regular rat visitor that would sit in with the guinea pigs bold as brass and share their bowl of food.... Guinea pigs were not ever harmed.
Dog sorted that one out.
Its more likely that a mother rabbit would kill her offspring rather than a visiting rat killing them, animals do this, pigs are well known for killing their young.
A local petting zoo had one rat get into the guinea-pig enclosure. There were 47 corpses to bury, and one surviving boar (who needed stitches) - the rat jumped out when the staff arrived. After that, they used to set dozens of traps each night, and shoot several rats each morning.
Sometimes the rat will just raid for food, but sometimes they'll go like a badger in a chicken run, even if they aren't shut in or anything.
I think a high-pressure air rifle (close to the maximum you're allowed without a gun-license) is OK to kill trapped rats (check, though, before you do it).
Modern poisons are pretty horrible: they kill over a week or two by internal haemorrhaging. Used to be strychnine or phosphides, which were quicker, but if a child or a dog got into it there was nothing you can do, whereas there are treatments for warfarin-type poisoning.
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Not sure how humane this one is but IF (not when, ever the optimist :) ) I get rats with the chicks (as have taken all necessary precautions) I think I'll use catch and release traps as poison is a slow death.
I've always believed that a quick death is a humane death, so I'll be taking the trapped live rats over a localish field, letting them go one at a time and training up my youngest Jack Russell terrier. It'll be quick for the rat and the dogs will have a right old time - they catch rats up the lottie and it's their natural instinct after all....
What do others think about this? Is it legal? If there is a right outcry then I'll have a rethink!
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i dont know if it works or if it is particularly humane, but ive been told that sugar beet used as horse feed can be used. The rats stuff themselves on the stuff, which once in the stomach expands, bursting the stomach, killing the rat BUT not leaving the corpse full of poison should owls or other animals eat the remains?
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ON OUR PLOTS WE HAVE A GUY WHO COMES ON WITH A JACK RUSSEL AND 2 FERRETS , HE LAYS TRAPS TOO, CAGE TYPE, ONCECAUGHT IN THE CAGE HE TAKES THEM TO THE LOCAL DRAIN TO RELEASE THEN 3 MILES AWAY
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i dont know if it works or if it is particularly humane, but ive been told that sugar beet used as horse feed can be used. The rats stuff themselves on the stuff, which once in the stomach expands, bursting the stomach, killing the rat BUT not leaving the corpse full of poison should owls or other animals eat the remains?
Never thought of that one before and I have sugarbeet in my garage for my ponies. Certainly sounds better than poison (which i normally use). Will have to give it a try